Talk:Peć
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Peć is part of the WikiProject Serbia, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familier with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
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[edit] Stubs
Again, can we list these as stubs? There is a lot more to say about it!2toise 18:33, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- A lot of articles on cities in Serbia and Montenegro are such. I don't know is there any sense in listing all of them as stubs... Nikola 06:34, 5 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Unable to verify
I have been unable to verify the changes made by an anonymous editor (155.245.229.20, a known vandal) relating to the administrative role of Pec, although I blame my own fact finding skills. Can someone verify these changes or perform a rollback if needed?--BakerQ 14:46, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
- Pec is a municipal center, but municipalities don't have articles yet and are not linked from articles on their cities. When some articles are created, it will make sense to link to them along with the districts. Nikola 09:17, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] League of Peja / Turkish minority / Dečani Monastery
--How about that League of Peja huh? I guess it was pretty important considering this is supposed to be NPOV, or should I wait until Kosova gets official* independence?
hehehe one more funny little thing...since the article mentions that there is a large Turkish minority, the reader would assume that the rest is Serbian huh - user —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.17.19 (talk • contribs) 06:11, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- I removed some Serbian propaganda as well as some factual mistakes. It is not true that there is a significant Turkish minority. There are a maximum of 200-400 Turkish speaking people in Peja. That’s hardly a significant minority.--Ferick 18:44, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
- Incidentally I am the writer of that page as I it was copied from a website I used to manage/own. So such talk of me having copied copyrighted material is not true. People at Albanian.com will tell you so if you ask them. In any case, I will not revert it back as I think you did a pretty good job in summarizing the history of the city. I still think there is room for improvement thought. May I ask you why you removed the picture? For your information, that picture is not copyrighted by that Albanian page either. Changes made: “It also gained an Islamic character with the construction of a number of mosques, several of which still survive.” The word several will be changed to “many” as that is a more accurate description of the current situation.
- “The 14th century Dečani Monastery, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, lies about 19 km south of Peć” has been changed to “The 14th century Dečani Monastery, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, lies about 19 km south of Peć in nearby Decani”. Your sentence leaves the impression that Decani Monastery is in Pec, which is clearly no the case. The Decani Monastery is in Decani, a different city, and there is no reason why that shouldn’t be mentioned.
- Questions:
- I am actually thinking about removing any reference to the Decani Monastery completely as it has nothing to do with Pec. Give me a reason why I shouldn’t remove it?
- Another question: You mention Serb institution by name, e.i Decani Monastery, by name even though they are not in the city, but you fail to mention any Albanian institutions, e.i the Bajrakli mosque and League of Peja etc, that are actually in the city and therefore more relevant to this page. Explanations please! Again, these are some of the reasons why there is room for improvement. I look forward to your answers and the dialogue.--Ferick 14:22, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Name
If sombody have UN acceptit evidence that the name of the city is not Peja but is Pec, then this articel must be unter the name: Peja and the page named "Peć" must be redirect. My evidence you kann see in UNMIK oficiale page.--Hipi Zhdripi 00:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with that. This city is called Peja. We could make a redirect for Peć.--Mig11 21:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
- Seconded. Here in Kosovo, everyone knows the town as Peja. Official UNMIK and OSCE documents call it Peja/Peć (official style gives the Albanian name first, then the Serbian name), but nobody calls it Peć except in reference to the Patriarchate. 80.80.161.137 08:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Unitet Naticion Law in Kosovo
The user of the city names in English Language (newer version from the UN liable pilari in Kosovo for such think )
The original page of the Law (1. in albanian L., 2.Serbian L.)
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/03albanian/A2000regs/RA2000_43.htm
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/04serbian/SC2000regs/RSC2000_43.pdf
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for albanian language.
RREGULLORe NR. 2000/43 UNMIK/REG/2000/43 27 korrik 2000 Mbi numrin, emrat dhe kufinjtë e komunave ------------------------------------------- Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm, Në pajtim me autorizimin e tij të dhënë me rezolutën 1244 (1999) të datës 10 qershor 1999 të Këshillit të Sigurimit të Kombeve të Bashkuara, Duke marrë parasysh Rregulloren nr. 1999/1 të datës 25 korrik 1999, të ndryshuar, të Misionit të Administratës së Përkohshme të Kombeve të Bashkuara në Kosovë (UNMIK) mbi autorizimin e Administratës së Përkohshme në Kosovë dhe Rregulloren Nr. 1999/24 të datës 12 dhjetor 1999 të UNMIK-ut mbi ligjin në fuqi në Kosovë, Me qëllim të qartësimit të numrit, emrave, shtrirja dhe kufinjve të komunave para mbajtjes së zgjedhjeve komunale në Kosovë, Shpall sa vijon: Neni 1 Numri dhe emrat e komunave Kosova ka tridhjetë komuna ashtu siç figurojnë në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Komunikimi zyrtar nuk përmban asnjë emër për ndonjë komunë i cili nuk figuron në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje, përveç që në ato komuna ku komunitetet etnike a gjuhësore joshqiptare dhe joserbe përbëjnë një pjesë substanciale, emrat e komunave jepen edhe në gjuhët e atyre komuniteteve. Neni 2 Shtrirja dhe kufinjtë e komunave Shtrirja e çdo komune dhe kufinjtë e tyre skicohen nga zonat e tyre përbërëse kadastrale. Zonat kadastrale të cilat përbëjnë çdo komunë figurojnë në Tabelën ‘B’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 3 Zbatimi Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm mund të lëshojë direktiva administrative në lidhje me zbatimin e kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 4 Ligji i zbatueshëm Kjo rregullore mbulon çdo dispozitë në ligjin e zbatueshëm e cila nuk është në përputhje me të. Neni 5 Hyrja në fuqi Kjo rregullore hyn në fuqi më 27 korrik 2000. Bernard Kouchner Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for serbian language.
UREDBA BR. 2000/43
UNMIK/URED/2000/43
27. jul 2000. godine
O BROJU, IMENIMA I GRANICAMA OP[TINA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara,
Shodno ovla{}ewu koje mu je dato Rezolucijom Saveta bezbednosti Ujediwenih
nacija 1244 (1999) od 10. juna 1999. godine,
Na osnovu Uredbe br. 1999/1 od 25. jula 1999. godine Privremene
administrativne misije Ujediwenih nacija na Kosovu (UNMIK), sa izmenama i
dopunama, o ovla{}ewima Privremene uprave na Kosovu i na osnovu Uredbe
UNMIK-a br. 2000/24 od 12. decembra 2000. godine o zakonu koji je u primeni na
Kosovu, <u>(hier is oficele user)</u>
U ciqu razja{wavawa broja, imena, oblasti i granica op{tina pre odr`avawa
op{tinskih izbora na Kosovu,
Ovim objavquje slede}e:
Clan 1
BROJ I IMENA OPSTINA
1.1 Kosovo ima trideset opstina kao sto je dato u Tabeli '''A''' u dodatku ovoj
Uredbi.
1.2 Zvani~na komunikacija ne mo`e da sadrzi bilo koje ime za opstinu koje
nije naziv odredjen u Tabeli A ove Uredbe, osim u onim opstinama gde etni~ke i
jezi~ke zajednice, koje nisu srpske i albanske ~ine znatan deo stanovni{tva, gde
se imena op{tina daju i na jezicima tih zajednica.
Clan 2
PODRU^JA I GRANICE OP[TINA
Podru~je svake op{tine i wene granice su ocrtane wenim sastavnim
katastarskim zonama. Katastarske zone koje ~ine svaku op{tinu su odre|ene u
Tabeli B prilo`enoj u dodatku ovoj Uredbi.
Clan 3
PRIMENA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara mo`e da donese administrativno
uputstvo u vezi sa primenom ove Uredbe.
Clan 4
ZAKON KOJI JE U PRIMENI
Ova Uredba zamewuje svaku odredbu zakona koji je u primeni a koja nije saglasna
sa wom.
Clan 5
STUPAWE NA SNAGU
Ova Uredba stupa na snagu 27. jula 2000. godine.
Bernar Ku{ner
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara
tabel of contens >A<
TABELA ‘A’ (alb) RASPORED A (ser.) Emrat e komunave (alb.)IMENA OPSTINA (serb) Albanski Srpski 01 Deçan \Decani 02 Gjakovë \Djakovica 03 Gllogovc \Glogovac 04 Gjilan \Gnilane 05 Dragash \Dragas 06 Istog \Istok 07 Kaçanik \Kacanik 08 Klinë\ Klina 09 Fushë Kosovë\ Kosovo Polje 10 Kamenicë \Kamenica 11 Mitrovicë \Kosovska Mitrovica 12 Leposaviq \Leposavic 13 Lipjan \Lipqan 14 Novobërdë \Novo Brdo 15 Obiliq \Obilic 16 Rahovec\ Orahovac 17 Pejë\ Pec 18 Podujevë\ Podujevo 19 Prishtinë \Pristina 20 Prizren \Prizren 21 Skenderaj\ Srbica 22 Shtime\ Stimqe 23 Shtërpcë\ Strpce 24 Suharekë\ Suva Reka 25 Ferizaj \Urosevac 26 Viti \Vitina 27 Vushtrri\ Vucitrn 28 Zubin Potok \Zubin Potok 29 Zveçan\ Zvecan 30 Malishevë\ Malisevo
If sambody have a argument Im waitting. In another cases you are going to interpret the dokumets (you are out of UN Law) and you dont have argumet, you dont work for Wikipedia but are destroing the Wikipedia image. I know that my english is not so gut, but a desinformation is not gut for Wikipedia and for the peopel in Kosovo. You can have a problem with "Haage". This tabel is speeken better then I.--Hipi Zhdripi 21:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- I completley agree with you. PEJA is the real name of the city. "pec" is a basterdized version when serbia occupied Kosovo than known as (DARDANIA) they made changes to all cities in Kosovo. I will post the history of the name PEJA and why it is called that soon. I am sick of people making ridiculous changes to the page, that are STRICTLY based on Serbian propaganda books. There is no mention of ILLYRIA, no mention of Dardania, No mention of the League of Peja. Nothing it is all Serbian propaganda history. Stop treating this page as if it was a serbian propagands site and provide people with some real information not what you like and dont like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PeYonka (talk • contribs) 18:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] No argumet
No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.--Hipi Zhdripi 05:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
- Actually 1244 does not anywhere say that Kosova is part of Serbia. Kosova was NEVER part of Serbia it was part of Yugoslavia. If you read Resolution 1244 nowhere does it even mention the word Serbia. Kosova is, was and always will be Albanian. And it is finally FREE.
- PEJA is the real name of the city. "Pec" is fabricated. It was always called PEJA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.248.193 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Asterion: Show little more respect for other users here.
Asterion: Stop treating this page as your private homepage! This is a NPOV version. Stop reverting the whole time! I didn’t move or delete anything. I corrected some things and I was just trying to make a NPOV version of the article. You can not use just the Serbian names, because both of them, the Albanian and the Serbian name for the city are official. Take a look at the documents, which as I can see in the discussion page, are also shown here by another user here.
It is not NPOV to use just the Serbian name here. And you can not use Peć because as I said before (look at the history) the letter "ć" is not an English letter. Stop accusing me. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia and everyone can edit the articles. You didn’t even gave a reason for your revert; just putting an accusation in the summary, doesn’t give you the right to revert the truth. Show little more respect for other users here. --Mig11 09:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
- Few comments:
- Side note: although English alphabet actually doesn't have diacritics, foreign names in (any kind of) Latin alphabet, (if not historically accepted differently, like Vienna) are written using native diacritics, if technically possible (See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (standard letters with diacritics)). With Unicode, that's not the problem on Wikipedia anymore; check e.g. French articles and you'll see the diacritics carefully preserved. So, both Serbian and Albanian diacritics (as in ë) should be preserved. Thus, there's no reason to quarrel about that.
- Now, more serious: the naming of Kosovo cities' articles is obviously an issue among Kosovar and Serbian editors. Although (was it Ilir or you?) briefly a "dual" version was in circulation ("Peja/Peć"), I think it's simply ugly. For the time being, I suggest simply avoiding references to the city name throughout the text (e.g. instead of "Peja/Peć" write just "the city"), and if it's inavoidable, use dual version. I'll try to edit the article to see what I mean.
- Duja 15:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Religion as factor in the ethnic strife
Estavisti, while it certainly was and remains a factor, it is not relevant to this article. We have plenty of background information in articles on the History of Kosovo, Kosovo War and 2004 unrest in Kosovo already, including religious differences. Please don't drag them into here. -- int19h 13:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Native" Illyrians
Why is the inclusion or exclusion of this word in the text of the article so important? At the same time, is it relevant to the subject of the article? -- int19h 09:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Population/Demographics
I added data from the 1961 Census. If you guys have other census then please add them. -LAz17, July 8, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by LAz17 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Population Census data updated. (LAz17 (talk) 19:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)).
[edit] Name
I will pu the official name on brackets"()"--Bindicapriqi (talk) 15:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] False information
WHO EVER IS PUTTING FALSE INFORMATION ON THIS PAGE - STOP! why didn't you include anything about ILLYRIA this information is strictly based on Serbian propaganda books and histroy. Please look at other sources and find the TURTH.
Again the name of this city is PEJA. "pec" is a basterdized version of the name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.248.193 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, The Truth... including the city's true name.
Please familiarize yourself with our naming conventions. For the specific issue of article naming, the English-language Wikipedia follows the common usage of reliable English-language publications, not true names. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 11:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Peja soounds more English than Pec as the letter "c" the serbian way does not exist in the English alphabet. PEJA includes 4 letters that are present in the Enlglish alphabet. Also this article is VERY bias, who is the administrator for it and the one who keeps using it as a personal opinion? I would like to send a complaint at least include both sides Albanian and serbian not just Serbian!! You completley ignore the fact of the ILLYRIAN ERA and as well as the hesitation to mention anything about DARDANIA. I would also like to ask, who made you (Ev) the administrator of "everything" kosovar information on wiki???? All in all the Republic of Kosova is now independent and the first official language in Kosovo is Albanian and the second is Serbian. so since you are pretending to be fair, Albanian comes first.Al—Preceding PeYonka comment added by 99.245.248.193 (talk) 04:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
- PeYonka, please take the time to read carefully our general naming conventions and the specific ones for geographic names. They explain that we should restrict ourselves to merely reflecting common English usage: we simply adopt the names used by most English-language publications. They explain that diacritics such as the acute accent in the ć character are allowed in the English-language Wikipedia. After all, the English language is written using standard Latin characters, the very ones for which diacritics are intended.
- We do not use the names that "sound more English" (a very subjective criterion in any case), nor do we eliminate all diacritics in all instances. — Morover, for the specific purpose of article naming, the languages and usages of Albanians, Serbs and Chinese are simply irrelevant. We do not use "local names", "official names", "historical names", "real names" or "true names"... instead, we use the names the majority of English-language publications use.
- In the case of this city, for a number of historical reasons the vast majority of English-language publications have been using the name Peć (with or without diacritics) for many decades now. In accordance to its naming conventions, the English-language Wikipedia merely follows this common English usage.
- Of course, Kosovo's declaration of independence may induce a change in English usage. If at some future moment the Albanian form Peja replaces the Serbo-Croatian Peć as the preferred usage of most English-language publications, we will rename this article accordingly. But not before.
- One final thing, but a very important one: do not copy-and-paste copyrighted material to Wikipedia. Do not add content to Wikipedia if you think that doing so may be a copyright violation. I have reverted your edits. Again, I ask you to read carefully the above mentioned policies... and the one on writting from a neutral point of view. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 18:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Ev, ok I must admit I am overreacting. I guess it does make sense in the whole "name" situation. I am new here and I did not know that you cannot copy paste historical facts. However, you ignored my last point about the article on peja being very bias indeed. You as an administrator should look at other World-known facts about the city of peja not only information you get from Serbian history or Slavic. You can refer to English, French, Italian, German, etc.. references because currently the only references i see are Serbian that make up the article.
How can you possibly write an article about a Kosovar city based solely on Serbian history? Perhaps, reading Noel Malcolm's - Kosovo: A short history (which cannot possibly be biased seeing as he had done extensive research on the Balkans) will lead you in the right direction. Now you amy say I am being bias by not accepting the article, but the fact is there is NOTHING on this article that sheds light on any historical fact that includes the Albanians in Kosovo.
Since I am new I still do not know how to properly use wikipedia, but when I learn I will definetly truly cite articles that include FACTS and not one sided arguments. Hope you reply, PeYonka (talk) 03:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
- I noticed that you're new to Wikipedia, PeYonka, and yet unfamiliar with how the English-language Wikipedia works. For that very reason I ignored the issue of article content before: I wanted to emphasize first what our naming conventions are and the importance of avoiding copyright violations. — To learn about the nature and functions of Wikipedia administrators, you can do no better than read the administrator policy. :-)
- About the references used in the article, the current version still lacks the very basic ones... and it is tagged accordingly with an indication that it "needs additional citations for verification." — In fact, it has only two references, none of which is Serbian: the World Gazetteer & Time (a US magazine). And some statistical data from the OSCE - which isn't Serbian either.
- You're right that the current history section does not mention the Albanians until the very last paragraph. There's absolutely no problem to adding more information, be it about Albanians, Serbs, Turks, Roma or any other group, as long as it is properly sourced. — The text that you had copied from this website made only one mention of Albanians, namely the presence of "Albanian feudal lords" building Dukagjin-style towers during the Ottoman period. If we could find a reliable source with which to back that assertion, we could include it to the article. - Regards, Ev (talk) 21:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction:). - PeYonka (talk)
