Talk:Pavle, Patriarch of Serbia
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Note: this article is taken verbatim from http://www.serbianorthodoxchurch.com/pages/s/pavle/biography-en.html I have therefore marked it as such, as it is plagiarism.Yahnatan 18:58, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
- This article states "In his tenure as the patriarch ... he has made efforts to heal the current schism in Macedonia with the uncanonical Macedonian Orthodox Church". How can this article use the term 'heal' and then call the Macedonian Orthodox Church 'uncanonical'. --Daniel tanevski 14:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- I have fixed that. Thanks for pointing it out :). The Patriarch himself does not view the church uncannocial and has refused to recoginze it because of the touchy issue of the name Macedonia, which Greece forbids Macedonian Slavs from using.
--Happyman22 18:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Rename
This article is named very oddly. Standard English would be more like "Patriarch Pavle of Serbia". I propose it be thusly renamed. Comment? TCC (talk) (contribs) 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
13:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)Patriarch of Serbia is his full title in Serbian. The patriarchs in the orthodox churches have almost total autonomy over their countries (Unlike catholic cardinals, being subdued to Vatican for example - the universal patriarch of the O.C. traditionally has much less influence.) and therefore being a Patriarch of Serbia is considered a title in it's wholeness (Imagine saying: "Emperor Ceasar of Rome", "Ceaser, Emperor of Rome" would be more appropriate, the first form being more appropriate for nobles or royalty, making them equal to other nobless or royalty of the same rank.)
[edit] NPOV
Duly flagged. The article makes no mention of Pavle's endorsement of Serbian military activities against civilians in the various Balkan war and his relationship with Arkan. Furthermore Wikipedia does not grant honorifics to religious figures, such as 'his holiness' or PBUH.
I do not know the source of your assertion that Pavle endorsed Serbian military activities. I can only tell you what I heard when he spoke in Washington DC during the peak of the war. He repeated himself over and over again, "It is better to be dead than to be cruel and inhuman. It better to be wiped off of the face of this earth than to act in hatred." I do not have his exact words but he was unflinching not only in his condemnation of all military activity against civilians. Believe me, most people did not want to hear what he was saying. They wanted to be told that the Serbs were fighting the good fight. He spoke truth from his deep faith unsullied by nationalism and pride.
"His holiness" is official form of adress for Serbian Patriarch ("Njegova svetost" in Serbian), just like "His/her empirial majesty" for royalty.
Esmama 20:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Controversy"
The following was sourced from a book written by a man with an axe to grind.[1] James B. Lyon is controversial commentator at best, as a quick glance at his blog will show.--Methodius 02:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Controversy
Patriarch Pavle has been heavily criticized for his actions during the Yugoslav wars. He and the Orthodox church have been viewed as promoters of Serb nationalism and Greater Serbia by many Bosniaks and Croatians. Also, along with Radovan Karadžić, he rejected the Vance-Owen peace plan, [1] and even joined Karadžić in saying that there had been no rapes or rape camps conducted by Serbs during the war on Bosnian women, and even accused Bosnian Muslims and Croats of the same thing [2] (this was later found to be wrong.)
He was also criticized for his support of the unrecognized breakaway Serb republic in Croatia, the Republic of Serbian Krajina. When a swift Croatian offensive put the western Slavonia region back in Croatian control, he urgently telephoned Slobodan Milošević, asking if he will defend Serbia's "brethren in need." [3] Several months later on July 31, he traveled to the Krajina capital Knin with Ratko Mladić (currently indicted for war crimes and genocide by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia), to assure the rebel Serbs of military and religious support. [4] However, Krajina ceased to exist just several days later, following another military offensive by the Croatian army. Several years later, when invited to Zagreb by Croatian Archbishop Josip Bozanić for talks on peace, he was snubbed by several leading Croatian party members and Christian groups for his and the Orthodox Church's role with the rebel Serbs during the war. [5]
Patriarch Pavle had joined many nationalists in urging Belgrade not to give up Karadžić and Mladić, who have been indicted for war crimes, to the ICTY. [6][7]
