User talk:Paul Ricken

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] State-bound art

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article State-bound art, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of State-bound art. Blanchardb-Me•MyEars•MyMouth-timed 23:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of State-bound art

An article that you have been involved in editing, State-bound art, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/State-bound art. Thank you. Blanchardb-Me•MyEars•MyMouth-timed 04:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] tag "expert-subject" and the discussion

Question to User:Blanchardb: I will try to better up the article Paul Ricken (talk) 23:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC) As there is evidende for the term in a book I suggest let the article state-bound art remain. If the citation is better situated in the discussion and not in the article, I also will write it down in the discussion: As regards the lemma "state-bound art": In the book "Art brut and Psychiatrie" of Leo Navratil, first edition 1999, the term is used on page 196 to translate the term "Zustandsgebundene Kunst". Paul Ricken (talk) 00:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC) Is that okay or have I to better up the article furthermore? Paul Ricken (talk) 00:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The concern I expressed was notability. That means, the first question you should ask is, should there even be an article on this subject? If not, you could write a masterpiece of an article and it would still be unacceptable.
In other words, it is not a matter of who uses this term, but rather how many people use it. Has this term found its way into the jargon of a profession? If not, you should consider writing an article on the book that uses the term, but not one on the term itself.
See Wikipedia's policy on neologisms. --Blanchardb-Me•MyEars•MyMouth-timed 00:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


There are some hints that the term exists in the context of psychiatry in Germany, England and France. See http://www.google.com and the search term: state-bound art, Leo Navratil:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=state-bound+art%2C+Leo+Navratil&btnG=Google+Search

RTF] P resseinformation File Format: Rich Text Format - View as HTML Hill plays an important role in “Zwischen Wahn und Wirklichkeit,” the pioneer study on state-bound art by Alfred Bader and Leo Navratil (1976). ... www.bawag-foundation.at/includes/file2.asp?id=861 - Similar pages JSTOR: A Cartography of the Ecstatic and Meditative States It follows from the state-bound nature of experi- ence and from the fact that ... This example was suggested to me by Primarius Dr. Leo Navratil, Gugging, ... links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0024-094X(197324)6%3A1%3C59%3AACOTEA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-N - Similar pages New Page 1 It follows from the state-bound nature of experience, and from the fact ... Fisher, in Psychiatry and Art, vol. 2, Art Interpretation and Art Therapy, I. ... www.yoga-east.org/ecstatic_states.htm - 132k - Cached - Similar pages Cartography is state-bound;. thus,. it. can. be evoked either by inducing. ("naturally," ...... Primarius. Dr. Leo. Navratil,. Gugging, Austria, for. sharing ... www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/174/4012/897.pdf - Similar pages Collectionneurs et découveurs d'art brut - [ Translate this page ] Médecin psychiatre, Leo Navratil s'intéresse aux travaux de Morgenthaler (qui ... à partir du milieu des années 70 une théorie (le "state bound") et, ... www.ac-creteil.fr/crdp/artecole/de-visu/acm/collect-brut.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages Découvreurs d'artistes bruts - [ Translate this page ] En 1999, il crée avec sa compagne Barbara Safarova ABCD - Art Brut ... Médecin psychiatre, Leo Navratil s'intéresse aux travaux de Morgenthaler (qui ... www.artistes-singuliers.com/contents/fr/d18.html - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

So perhaps it is due to the guidelines of wikipedia to let the article state-bound art remain as it is important to experts in the field of psychiatry, art brut, outsider art, art. Paul Ricken (talk) 10:17, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I object to the deletion, because "Zustandsgebundene Kunst" is an established term in art history. The term "state-bound art" makes it possible that the anglo-american part of the world can talk about the theme using English vokabulary. The term "state-bound art" seems to be established enough. So I remove the deletion-message for the moment and will see if there are further arguments for deletion of third parties. Although it,s so that personally I don't agree with the term, because it suggests that mental illness favours good art. Perhaps that is true now and than, but it's certainly not the rule. For this or a similar discussion the term is of some help. The discussion about the question if mental illness favours good art or not is not so seldom and of great interest in the artworld. Paul Ricken (talk) 01:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Afd

I am not sure this helps, but below is a translation from our sister Wikipedia site in German. Should the English version of the phrase be introduced here at Wikipedia. Leaning towrds no! In that it has not been accepted yet here. Shoessss |  Chat  12:54, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

With the term condition-bound art is tried in the sense of a "Political correctness" to designate in neutral way the art mentally patients, mostly in psychiatric institutes. The term was coined/shaped by the Austrian psychiatrist Leo Navratil. In a frequently expressed opinion it is to be assigned to the kind brood. The occupation with the bildnerischen expression of psychiatrisierter patients began at the beginning 20. Century, in France with Marcel Réja (L'Art chez les fous, 1907), in Switzerland with walter Morgenthaler (a spirit patient as an artist (Adolf Woelfli), 1921), and in Germany with Hans's prince horn (Bildnerei of the spirit patients, 1922). After the Second World War in particular Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler and the Austrian psychiatrist Leo Navratil contributed to the acknowledgment of the condition-bound art and its artists.

The term "state-bound art" is not a neologism, its an accepted translation of Zustandsgebundene Kunst that is used in the Englisch speaking world/on the whole world, because Englisch is the world language. That in the area of Austria, Switzerland, Germany, in short: in the German speaking area of the world the terms in Englisch, state-bound art, and especially the term Zustandsgebundene Kunst are more widespread than in the Englisch speaking world may be true. Nevertheless can the Englisch speaking community ignore what happens in the world that is not part of the Commonwealth. Englisch is world language in the German speaking world as well, there live millions of people. If this people want to communicate with the world they use the Englisch language. User talker "shoesss"

translates "Zustandsgebundene Kunst" as condition-bound art. One knows what is meant by this translation, but there is no evidence that condition-bound art is in use. Therefore condition-bound art is a neologism. State-bound art is used by experts in the field of art brut/outsider art for years. So it should remain. To have better opportunity to clear the discussion I set the following tag:

 This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.

[[Wikipedia:WikiProject {{{1}}}|WikiProject {{{1}}}]] may be able to help recruit one.

If a more appropriate WikiProject or portal exists, please adjust this template accordingly.

[[Category:{{{1}}} articles needing expert attention]] Paul Ricken (talk) 10:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Paul Ricken (talk) 11:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] February 2008

If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Paul Salvator Goldengreen, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

  1. editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
  2. participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
  3. linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);
    and you must always:
  4. avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Thank you. freshacconcispeaktome 13:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Paul Salvator Goldengreen

When I have a bit more time, I will help with some of the editing and see if we can make this more neutral. freshacconcispeaktome 12:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Paul Ricken (talk) 17:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)