Talk:Paul Hindemith

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[edit] Photo

The photo on this page is believed to be copyrighted. It may be considered for fair use but I don't believe it is "open to the public domain." This is because I have seen the picture on a music CD cover of Paul Hindemith during my music studies. Hence, it is my 70% belief that this picture may be copyrighted. (70% because there is a 30% chance the photo on the CD cover may have been taken from the same source, that is of open source. I dought it! --CylePat 23:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Early performing career?

The entry here states that he "led" the Frankfurt Opera Orchestra in 1915-23...I believe this means that he was the concertmaster (American usage) or leader (British usage), not the conductor, as I don't think he did much conducting until his middle years. Any confirmation? Wspencer11 13:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Will see if a biography or contemporary reports provide any enlightenment (a month after the question ...!) Will note that this describes him with certainty as the concertmaster, though. Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:05, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Departure for USA

Hadn't he left Germany already by about 1938 to work in Turkey, and came to the States from there? I had always understood that he didn't return to Germany after going to Turkey until well after the war. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 16:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, he went to Ankara first in April 1935, returning to Germany, then going back to Turkey in 1936 and 1937. Evidently he went back and forth a lot. He first went to the US in March 1937; then he went back to Turkey (?) and returned to the US in 1938 and 1939. In September 1938 he emigrated to Switzerland, and in February 1940 he emigrated to the US. (All from the New Grove.) It's a little confused: I'm inferring he traveled back and forth from Turkey to the U.S. and didn't return to Germany until 1947. Antandrus (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Best composer?

The latest edit says many see him as one of the best composers of his time. I'm not certain this is really true; maybe it could say "most prominent" or something along those lines. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 12:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

This edit was by User:24.177.126.94, who previously vandalised the web page in a more obvious way. I believe that this was meant to be vandalism as well.
--Atavi 18:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing stuff?

Hey. I re-read this article just now and noticed something missing. Before, there was a good sentence that said something about there being a perception of H's music as being theoretically interesting but emotionally uninvolving (or something like that). I thought that that was good, and think that it's true (that there is such a perception, if not a consensus).

I think that "good sentence" may have been replaced (by me) on grounds that it was undocumented and used weasel words, along the lines of "many people say . . .". The replacement (documented) sentence now in the article reads: "In 1940 Hindemith emigrated to the United States. At the same time that he was codifying his musical language, his teaching and compositions began to be affected by his theories, according to critics like Ernest Ansermet (1961, note to p. 42 added on an errata slip)."--Jerome Kohl 20:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Hooray for you, but you took out the guts, the interesting part. I get the robot concept, but it's silly. It's, what, 2007? It's time (finally) for reality, not abstraction. Dying like a gentleman, dying by the rules, used to make sense, but doesn't any longer. You should have come up with (if you felt you had to) a documented/non-weasel words way of saying what was there, as it's fundamental to any honest look at H's music. You might have quoted something from the critical reaction to him, for example. There's a gorilla in the room: H's music confuses people, turns them off. Honegger thought he was a genius, but my plumber thinks he was a hack. Concealing the fact of the controversy smacks of its own bias, and robs us of the juice: don't you see that it's more interesting to acknowledge the divide, and its fierceness? We're not here to serve Wikipedia or the encyclopedic God. Now let me hear some more robotics, some good hydraulic abstraction.

I think you need to take a look at the Wikipedia policy guidelines, which set forth very clearly the ground rules for this project. It is hardly a "robot concept" to insist on accuracy and accountability in place of wild allegations. As to "quoting something from the critical reaction to him", that is exactly what I did do. Your statement "H's music confuses people, turns them off" is a perfect example of weasel words. Who exactly are "these people"? There is no question of "concealing" anything. You are perfectly welcome to cite "the controversy", with its "juice" and "fierceness", which I am apparently ignorant of. But, then, you see, I am not old enough personally to remember those combative old days of the 1920s. By my time (my student days, I mean, in the late 1960s), Hindemith was regarded as an established figure and, if anything, rather stodgy and ordinary. Do please fill us in, but remember to cite your sources.--Jerome Kohl 07:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Not bad, but what can I say? You're still talking morals, ideas, going so far as to use words like policy, guidelines, rules - you don't hear the hydraulics? OK, so you may be too far gone, but I'll go through the motions of suggesting that we not follow laws simply to follow them, even when they sometimes, as in this case, take us out the window. If you're going to talk about H, just Talk about him. Established figure? Take a look at the concert hall programs; he's no such thing - never has been and never will be. And the people about whose identity you claim to be in the dark with regard to are the ones standing next to you in the Wal Mart line, the McDs drive-thru, the nude beach - they're everywhere. I like pretending, too, but there are (or should be) limits. Happy computing.