User talk:Pats1/Archives/2007/December

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Philadelphia Eagles edit

Thanks for catching that one after I had reverted the one edit. I had read through, and I didnt notice that, so thanks again for catching that :) Whammies Were Here 11:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Your name is mentioned in a discussion at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests

Hello Pats1. See this thread where an anonymous editor complains about your use of the term vandalism. You are welcome to add your own comment to that discussion. EdJohnston 17:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Giants Stadium v. The Meadowlands

I'm not trying to be cute by saying "The Meadowlands." If you look at the other NFL season pages, the majority of the ones that refer to home Jets games refer to the stadium as "The Meadowlands," not as "Giants Stadium." For consistency's sake--given that, again, the usage is consistent with NFL policy--I don't see why the NEP page should be different. Samer 06:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Except for the obvious fact that the real, 100% official name of the stadium is Giants Stadium. ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 07:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Except for the fact that the real, 100% official name of the stadium when the Jets play home games there is The Meadowlands, according to NFL policy. (In any case, I've requested clarification on the Project page, and won't argue the issue until I get some guidance.) Samer 17:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna have to agree with the first and last posters here. When the Jets are home there, it's The Meadowlands. That's how it should be referred to, and linked to Giants Stadium or wherever the article is at.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Team colours

Concerning Argonauts colours in Template:NFLPrimaryColor and Template:NFLSecondaryColor, I understand the need to use official colours and was not being cavalier in changing to darkblue and lightblue. Those have been the official team colours since 1873. I'm not sure which logo you were referring to (see Argonauts site). The use of the template is not in building logos but in using team colours. The logo colours are not really of any interest beyond a last resort to determine the team colours. I've changed the Argo colours again but with referral to an Argo logo [1] to make it "official" and avoid the useless (i.e. unable to use the template for intended purpose, lettering illegible) colours there before. I would like to get some consensus, however, that what we are really seeking here are official team colours rather than logo colours. DoubleBlue (Talk) 00:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually I think darkblue and lightblue represent the official team colours better than a graphics designer's choice for use on a logo. They are also more likely to be accurately displayed by different browsers. Cheers! DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at their uniforms on argonauts.ca. Here's a nice example where you can see the logo and the uniform at the same time. The one I'm most concerned about is the light blue. DoubleBlue (Talk) 01:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: GM title and Niners

Hey Pat1, I understand you logic with the GM title, but with the 49ers the owner has always made it clear, and with the organization, that the GM Title for the 49ers is a vacant one with the current Head Coach acting as GM for the most part. You can see recent comments made by the owners that she wishes to strip GM powers from the head coach, Nolan. See here: http://49ersnews.com/denise-is-pissed/ and source document: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/21/SPQ3TFV88.DTL I wanted to cite them but I thought it was weird to add a cite to it. I will include the links with my edit again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zsiddique (talk • contribs) 07:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

Hey can you move Justin Miller (pitcher) to Justin Miller (baseball)? Thanks.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:54, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you also move Wade Wilson (football) to Wade Wilson (American football)--Yankees10 (talk) 18:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Another one: Can you move Thomas Jackson (football player) to Tom Jackson (American football). I think we both know Tom is how he's normally referred to.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

AFL

Please explain what makes this indisputable fact into POV. I can understand how this may be inappropriate for the AFL page. But it is pertinant to a Broncos specific page.

Hi, Pats1. I understand that POV is inappropriate but this statement is not POV. To say that the second sentence "is simply commentary not supported by any sources," is like deleteing a reference to the Sun being hot becasue it is unsourced. The Sun is hot; the Broncos stability is ironic -- in fact it is one of the best real life examples of irony I have ever come across. However, since all references to irony in general are discouraged, I understand that this one is as well.

However, the fact that the Broncos are the only original AFL team still playing in their home city is notable to the Broncos' history in the same way that the Arizona Cardinals' instability, the Bears' begginigns as the Decataur Staleys, and the Steelers' and Colts' moves from the NFL to AFC are notable. For their first 35 years the Broncos were the sole focus (or at least dominant) of civic pride in Denver. The Broncos' vitality to the culture of Denver and their stability are an important mark of the team's identity and central to the team's history, especially in light of the general instability of professional sports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.209.123 (talk) 16:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

A Quick Question

Hey, I saw that you created {{PatriotsQuarterback}}, I want to do the same thing with the Green Bay Packers. I was wondering how you went about completing the Patriots template. Did you just list the major starting QBs, or did you list every QB who has started for the Pats? I was also wondering if you had a good source that listed starting QBs, I know on Packers.com it lists every QB who has started, but that is like 59 different people. So basically I was just wondering how you went about completing the Pats template. Any suggestions would be very helpful! Thanks!
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 04:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Gotcha, I figured it would be something like that but I wasn't sure, thanks for response. Good luck editing!
Gonzo fan2007 ^{talk ♦ contribs} 21:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Request

Can you please delete this image:[2], and also can you block the users Jjj222/Gmh224/Pascack they are sockpuppets and continue to vandalize Wikipedia, can you please make it longer than 24 hrs--Yankees10 (talk) 00:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Need proof that the picture is copyrighted; sockpuppet bans need to go through WP:RfCU. Pats1 ^T/C 00:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain this to Googie man, because he sent me a message asking me if I can do this stuff, and he has proof it was copyrighted.--Yankees10 (talk) 00:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

All I need is a link to the picture from another website. Pats1 ^T/C 00:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Here it is:[3].--Yankees10 (talk) 00:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm...is there is any way to prove the author of that website didn't post the picture? Pats1 ^T/C 00:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I dont know, should I ask Googie man?--Yankees10 (talk) 00:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Clowney

I was skeptical, I just saw it in so many places I thought it was something I didn't know about. I guess it's just a piece of bad info that's gotten passed around.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 00:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

(Insert quip on ignorance here). Pats1 ^T/C 00:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah yeah.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 00:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

John Lynch

Hey, can you move John Lynch (football) to John Lynch (American football)?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 03:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Dolphins headings

I think you're totally wrong about this, and I plan on adding the headings, whether they be exactly like before or in some form, in the future. Any reason you give for one of the headings not being neutral, I can knock it down. Struggles and rebuilding, for example. You know as well as I do I could provide sources for this from a million different places, from the NFL standings to all the media outlets. As for the 80s, "Beginning of the Marino Era" might be more appropriate since the WHOLE decade did not have Marino. But you know the Dolphins history in the 80s is marked by the emergence of Marino and you know that's what any section on the decade is likely to be mostly about.

The fact is there is not one legitimate neutrality issue here. Any reason you can give I can explain to you why it's not a neutrality issue. If you want to discuss it more we can do so on AIM, but these headings are good for the article and there are all simply fact-based, nothing more.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

One question: Why aren't the 1980s the Mark Clayton era? Pats1 ^T/C 11:47, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

You've got to be kidding me. You know damn well if we polled 100 people, 99 people would say the same thing.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 15:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

That's the point. It's the concept of arbitrarily picking and choosing. What if someone says they think the 2000s were successful because of their playoff appearance? It's like putting 2001: Success for a heading on a player article. That's why we use just the specific year, or early life, or college career or something. But not an arbitrary (read: POV) heading as a sort of blanket statement for the years described. Using just 1990s is the simplest, most factual, most neutral way. Pats1 ^T/C 22:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Thousands of references to the Marino Era could easily be found, and you know that. It's not arbitrary at all. You know that every single person, if asked to pick out one person or acquisition from the Dolphins in the 1980s or 90s that first popped in their mind, they'd say Marino. You know that, and I know you know it. You know that quarterback is the most important single position in football, and you also know that Marino was one of the best ever and by far the best player in the franchise's history. It's like you're causing trouble just to cause it. There is no neutrality issues here, only in your mind.

The Perfect Season and Super Bowl Titles - a team accomplishment never done again in the NFL (at least not until February), and Super Bowl titles, i.e. the ultimate goal of the sport.
Marino Era - One of the best players at the most important position in football, a Hall of Famer and undoubtedly the most recognized player in the franchise's history - the face of the franchise for both decades.
Marino's era continued and Shula's departure - Marino already discussed, but Shula is the longest tenured coach in Dolphins history, the winningest in football history and was the coach for the franchise's only titles and perfect season (significance of which discussed above). You want to argue his departure isn't not a significant occurrence for the Phins in the 90s?
2000s - Yeah, we made the playoffs. But what's our overall record in the decade? Is it not below .500? I haven't done the math, but it can't be good. So struggles and rebuilding can both be sourced and you know that.

I'm not backing down on this man. I know I'm right about this, it makes the article better and it doesn't bring up and neutrality issues.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 22:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately it is arbitrary. Anything besides "1972: 14-0" or "1972: Perfect season" or "2000s: below-.500 record" or "1990s: X Wins, Y Losses" is. Those are the facts - "Struggles" or "Rebuilding" or "Player X era" sound better, but simply aren't tangible facts ("Struggles" is definitely the closest to it, but again, did they struggle 100% of the time or 90% of the time in the years described? No. So it isn't an accurate statement for the ENTIRE section. "Rebuilding" is probably the worst, just a wishy-washy statement with no real meaning.) In any case on any article, an actual statistic or specific achievement is preferred over a generalized, unclear, and potentially inaccurate statement like "success." Putting a specific term or label on a season, no matter the references provided, is always going to have some element of POV to it. Something like "2005: 10-6 record" or "2004: Super Bowl victory" or "1995: Final season in Cleveland" are some of the only exceptions I can think of. Pats1 ^T/C 22:59, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Not changing my mind. There are clear-cut events/players that stand out in a decade, and you know that. And you know that all people would think of the same ones when thinking about that decade.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 00:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree Chris, but that doesn't make it compliant with NPOV guidelines. Pats1 ^T/C 00:47, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Give me a specific guideline it violates. I guarantee you can't find one that I can't explain away.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm putting a WP:RfC in as we speak, because I couldn't find the issue addressed. Pats1 ^T/C 01:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Template:NFLStartingRunningbacks

Can you delete Template:NFLStartingRunningbacks, some users think it should'nt be a template.--Yankees10 (talk) 21:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Colors

Every single NFL season page (2006, 2005, 2004 etc etc) uses that color of blue. I'm just kind of picky about things matching and the they don't right now. Would you rather me change every NFL season page colors or just the NFL template? To be honest I like the blue on the NFL template more than that more flourescent blue but changing 1 thing is much easier than 40+. HoosierState 23:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Jason Carter

What was the deal on the Panthers template? His number had been there all season if I recall right.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 21:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I missed the fact he was on the PS. Pats1 ^T/C 22:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, haha.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 22:02, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

List of National Football League players with at least 10,000 career rushing yards

can you move List of National Football League players with at least 10,000 career rushing yards back to List of National Football League players with 10,000 career rushing yards, I think it lengthens the title for no reason--Yankees10 (talk) 00:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

They're copies of the same page, just make one a redirect -- it seems as if there's some question as to what the title should be. Pats1 ^T/C 00:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

the only thing about that is the Edit history is messed up--Yankees10 (talk) 00:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm fixing it, just screwed up the first time. Give me a minute to fix what I broke. Pats1 ^T/C 00:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

alright--Yankees10 (talk) 00:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Mitch Berger

Mitch Berger is just a re-direct to Mitch Berger (football player). Mind fixing it?►Chris Nelson^Holla! 01:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Disruptive user

I think you might wanna dish out a block to this guy.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 02:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

He was just blocked indefinitely. Pats1 ^T/C 02:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Warnings conventions

You changed my warnings written in User talk:69.92.194.140. I followed the guidelines from the warning template messages, and because of that I have reverted your changes. However, I am a fairly new user to Wikipedia and you are welcome to explain what I might have missed. --Τις (talk) 04:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Patriots Cheating

There is no evidence of the Patriots cheating, but a user keeps adding it, and you keep removing it. I just wanted to tell you he has added it again. I just wanted to pass this on![4]America69 (talk) 02:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

2008 NFL Draft

I removed what I did from your edit because I don't think the specifics are relevant to the section or article. I do believe that it should be noted that Miami has clinched the pick at this point, but the date, loss, opponent and all that of the clinching is not relevant to the draft itself. So I think we should find another way of noting that pick, unlike any other, has been clinched.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, will you help me out at Tyler Palko? This User:KellyAna is giving Street20 and myself some problems with Palko's article regarding his debut (or lack thereof), his status as an NFL player, etc. See Street's talk page and the edit history of Palko's article. Thanks.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 04:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

What was the big issue? Pats1 ^T/C 13:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Pats' page

Hi: I disagree pretty strongly with a lot (though not all) of your reversions on the Patriots' page... could you comment on the main page? I think it's a little unfair to just wholesale revert them without a little explanation. The timeline in particular is not very sensible. Thanks, Ψν^Psi_nu 16:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

NFL Rivalries

Shouldn't the rest of the logos on other rivalry pages be removed as well? HoosierState 17:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Jeff Cook (basketball)

Regarding my reversion of your reversion: there is no basketball-specific category for Idaho State, so I think it's fair to put Cook in the general alumni category. Zagalejo^^^ 22:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Perfect season

I'm sure you've just watched the Pats go to 16-0 with a 38-35 win over the Giants. New York Dreams (talk) 04:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Dammit! I wanted to get here first! Well, doesn't matter who got here first, they won! J-ſtan^Contribs_{User page} 05:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. Thanks. Pats1 ^T/C 05:13, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Quite a feat, innit? Cheers mate! gaillimh^{Conas tá tú?} 06:01, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Nostradamus! Pats1 ^T/C 06:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

2008 pats season

You deleted it. I understand there's a rule against recreation of deleted articles..but it was a very good article that you deleted. In addition, it will probably be recreated again - possibly by yourself. So the question is, what's the point? --n1yaN t 06:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that was what I was aiming for to clean it up and such. That's why I came back to fix it up, change the grammar, discourse, etc. Oh well, I'll remake it after they go to the Super Bowl, hopefully you won't find any grounds to delete it then. And if you do, let me know and I'll try to fix it before you delete it, again. --n1yaNt(~Cpt. Obvious~) 20:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Tyler Palko

You did a bunch of work on the Tyler article after a dispute took place. I left it alone until this morning but another editor is undoing some of your changes, and mine, that were references and other wording. The article is already tagged as needing references and the intermittent editor is adding more information without sources. I said something but apparently since I am "not part of the NFL project" I am not taken seriously as an editor by the men editing the NFL (something I was told, not something I believe). Can you give the article a look. I'm trying to find more references, but it is hard to add references to someone else's additions who refuses to add them. I believe Street20 is the editor's name, but I'm not positive without looking and then editing your page again, which tends to piss people off. Thanks for your help.KellyAna (talk) 17:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Im glad...

... that you made this reversion before I saw the comment, cause my reply would have invovled the phrases "condescending prick" and "buy a GD dictionary." :) Also, congrats on the perfect season. Cheers. youngamerican (wtf?) 23:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help

I appreciate your help on the articles that I've created and maintained, mainly the Chiefs articles (History..., 2007 season..., and the main Chiefs article). It shows that even Pats and Chiefs fans hold utmost respect for eachother : ) Thanks again! Conman33 03:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Haha yeah we're looking forward to next year here. The #4 pick is always a good thing. Hopefully they can top what the Pats did this year haha. Conman33 05:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

2007 Playoffs

Why did you delete all the game data boxes for next week's wildcard games? 69.210.252.204 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

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