Talk:Patti Smith/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Contents 1 Not the 'y' one 2 Very confusing edit 3 Correction or vandalism? 4 Wave / sonic 5 Sonic Youth 6 Heart attack? 7 Patty Smith (note: the "y") 8 Please remove vandalism 9 Performances 10 Fair use rationale for Image:Easter cover.jpg 11 Fair use rationale for Image:Dream of life.jpg 12 Fair use rationale for Image:Gone Again.jpg 13 Fair use rationale for Image:Gung Ho.jpg 14 Fair use rationale for Image:Radio Ethiopia.jpg 15 Fair use rationale for Image:Peace and Noise.jpg 16 Early Life in Chicago and New Jersey 17 fix it 18 About Live album 2006 - February 10, 1971 19 because the night - not coauthored as stated 20 GA failed 21 References 22 Blue Oyster Cult "Agent of Fortune" album 23 GAN 2

Not the 'y' one

Not to be confused with Patty Smyth, another American female artist.

Very confusing edit

extensive edit by Cacycle with edit summary "reverted vandalism by 24.235.144.129. She is NOT married to McEnroe, that's Patty Smyth". 24.235.144.129 had last edited several days earlier [1], but nothing in the article before or after 24.235.144.129's edit or Cacycle made any claim that Patti Smith was married to McEnroe.

Cacycle is an admin, so I presume he knows what he's doing, but this is very confusing. Among the material removed by his edit is a lot of detail in Smith's early biography (most of it accurate, I believe, though possibly not all of it) and what seems to me like some reasonably good material about the album Horses. Cacycle, I'd sure appreciate if you would expand on your edit summary. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

24.235.144.129 is a vandal, he has sneaked in wrong facts and dates into several articles (e.g. a wrong birthday for Patty Smith). I have reverted his edit which was not noticed earlier. I took the version directly before the vandalism and added the changes made after the vandalism. One of those later changes stated that she is married to "Macenroe". Feel free to improve the article, but please double-check everything 24.235.144.129 has added. Hope this helps, Cacycle 01:26, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

That's fine, I was just confused by the edit summary. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Patti Smith was never married to kurt Cobain, and About A Boy was not exactly a tribute. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.9.234.202 (talk • contribs) 14 August 2006.

Correction or vandalism?

Uncommented anonymous edit changed "When her son, Jackson, turned 21, Smith decided to move back to New York" to "When her son, Jackson, turned 12, Smith decided to move back to New York." No citation for either one. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Wave / sonic

The comment "Following the release of Wave, Smith, ... met Fred "Sonic" Smith," is misleading. "Frederick" on Wave is about Sonic who was surely her partner by then.

Her official arista biography is quoted as saying ""Dancing Barefoot" and "Frederick" were inspired by the new love in her life, Fred "Sonic" Smith" - http://www.oceanstar.com/patti/bio/aristbio.htm

allmusic says she was living with Allen Lanier before that. Where did Jim Carroll fit in ? http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:0rk9ikbhbb89~T1

-- Beardo 06:08, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Sonic Youth

What about a mention of Sonic Youth as they have done various tribues to Patty SmithJohnRussell 05:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Heart attack?

I thought Fred died of cancer. 12 May 2006

I am also confused by this. While I'm pretty sure the official cause of death was "heart failure", I thought he was in poor health for quite a while before that, and his death was not "a sudden heart attack". I don't have a verifiable source for this, but I thought he had Multiple Sclerosis. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 07:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Judging from the brief account of his waning health in Patti Smith Complete: Lyrics, Reflections and Notes for the Future, I'm pretty sure it was not a sudden thing.

Patty Smith (note: the "y")

Patty Smith used to be a redirect to this article. I turned it into a disambig page, so people can choose between Patty Smyth and Patti Smith. --Rob 23:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Please remove vandalism

The line "But she is just another irrelevant burnout whom certain media figures TELL you is popular, relevant, or worthy." is in the "Political Engagement" section, but I can't edit it to remove it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.169.228.162 (talk) 03:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Performances

Why is there a list of her performances in the "Re-emergence" section? Most of those aren't very notable (with the exception of the CBGB performance) and should either be deleted or simply moved to a new section listing noteworthy performances? In any case I don't think it's very appropriate to just list them in a section about her later work. Torie 03:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Easter cover.jpg

Image:Easter cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 02:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Dream of life.jpg

Image:Dream of life.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gone Again.jpg

Image:Gone Again.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gung Ho.jpg

Image:Gung Ho.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Radio Ethiopia.jpg

Image:Radio Ethiopia.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Peace and Noise.jpg

Image:Peace and Noise.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Early Life in Chicago and New Jersey

I hate to go chopping at the little bit of information that's here, but our (unreferenced) statement is that her mom was a devout Jehovah's Witness, while Arista bio (it's the reference-link for her place of birth) says that her mom was a jazz singer...Can JWs do that? Could they do that in the '50s? Also this business about having a baby, giving it up and dropping out of college should be supported - it's sensitive and personal, and without solid reference it's potentially a big problem in a Living Person biography. What source for this stuff? ~ Otterpops 16:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, gotcha. The "Editorial Review" sections clipped from Amazon.com are jumbled in with random stuff, also "artistic influence" was replaced with "lover" and etcetera. Wot a buncha wits. ~ Otterpops 02:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

fix it

now. not like i care about Patti in particular, but the page is an eyesore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.180.23 (talk) 00:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

About Live album 2006 - February 10, 1971

an inhouse release of the very first reading by Patti Smith and Lenny Kaye at St. Mark's Church, by Mer Records. Sold in Patti Smith's shows or to Mer Records, P.O. Box 407, Murray Hill Station, NYC., NY 10156. babellist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.246.53.53 (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

because the night - not coauthored as stated

at one point in the 70's bruce springstien was having an argument with his manger or someone about the rights or royalties to his songs.

a prolific writer bruce did not want to recored because the night while being involved in the above dispute.

so he gave it to patti

thats the story —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.25.94.33 (talk) 10:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• The lyrics were unfinished when Patti received the melody, she wrote all the verses.69.120.231.175 (talk) 06:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

GA failed

Too many issues, mainly sourcing. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 05:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

• The first para of the lead could be expanded a bit?

i think it's already enough--Vlad (talk) 16:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• Ref 2 needs better formatting

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• "counted her 47th in its list of the 100 Greatest Artists of All Time," - there shouldnt' be an external link here. The ref is sufficient.

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• "in Jackie Curtis's play Femme Fatale" - wikilink, or translation?
• "By 1974, however," - doens't make sense at the start of a section

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• Refs need publisher info and better formatting

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• "he B-side describes the helpless anger..." - ref needed

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "have stood the test of time" - ref needed

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "who adored poetry as much as she did. (Wave's "Dancing Barefoot" and "Frederick" were both dedicated to him.)" - refs needed

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "The running joke at the time was that she only married Fred because she would not have to change her name. - and another

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "...Fred "Sonic" Smith died. Shortly afterward..." - paragraph needs sourcing

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "That same year she collaborated with..." - rest of paragraph unsourced

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• "In 2003 her artwork was exhibited at the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh" - this is the first time artwork is mentioned in the article. Also needs a ref, as does the rest of the para

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• The legacy section needs prose, it's currently all listcruft. Also, "In popular culture" sections are usually avoided.

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• Politics section needs [much] more sourcing

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 16:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• The last 4 ELs aren't needed

Y Done--Vlad (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Please leave a note on my talk page for questions/comments. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 05:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

References

Sorry, but some are still needed:

1. an experience she found excruciating. I took this out as POV without a reference.
2. Smith graduated from Deptford Township High School in 1964. Put a ref in.
3. Mapplethorpe's death in 1989.
4. and doing performance art.

That's just the first few. Stuff like the above has to be referenced, because it could be conjecture. You know it's true, but a reviewer doesn't. --andreasegde (talk) 16:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I added a couple. --andreasegde (talk) 16:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Good grief, this has come a long way. References are nearly all there now; just one or two places to do. Well done. ("received airplay..." being one).--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Blue Oyster Cult "Agent of Fortune" album

Not sure how to work it in, but I think it's worth mentioning that she appears prominently on the Blue Oyster Cult album "Agents of Fortune". She is photographed with the group on the inside cover (wearing a black bow-tie!) and she is a vocalist on one track, as well as co-writing two songs mentioned in the article. The album is very well known and prominent in its own right (and still in print 32 years after issue), so it seems worthy of an explicit mention here. Unless one was already familiar with either her or B.O.C., it would be easy to overlook her contributions to that album. Typofixer76 (talk) 13:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

GAN 2

Some things, it looks like much has improved since last time:

• First: LEAD needs to be expanded to two full paragrahs, summarizing the entire article.

I don't speak English very well, so I can't do this. First paragraphs in these links 1, 2 can help to write lead section. --Vlad (talk) 09:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

• Grammar: I'll try and help out, but in some places it's plain awful, ex. "Smith was born in Chicago, Illinois. Mother, Beverly, was a jazz singer"

I've tried to improve this sentence. --Vlad (talk) 10:15, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

• Bibliography: What is this?

This is list of books written by Patti. --Vlad (talk) 10:00, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

• Further reading- format all the dates, etc. consistently.

Y Done --Vlad (talk) 10:15, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll get to more stuff once I give it a more thorough read through. Das Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 23:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you ,-) --Vlad (talk) 09:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Some other things: I'll try and use the biography to make the first paragraph, but do you really need all the music samples? You refer to the songs and all in the text, so it's not like they are superfluous, it just seems a tad heavy. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 12:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Y Done --Vlad (talk) 14:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Based on the stuff done here, and in my last GA review, and on Mr. Fuchs' comments here, I'll pass this GA; well done Vlad. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 08:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.