Talk:Pattaya

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 Pattaya is part of WikiProject Thailand, a project to improve all Thailand-related articles. The wikiproject is also a part of the Counteracting systematic bias group on wikipedia aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Thailand-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance for this Project's importance scale.
Thailand To-do:

Contents

[edit] Shopping

WHO IS DELETING ABOUT JIM'S MAY I KNOW PLEASE?

I have; This is not an billboard, nor is it a flyer for your business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainwalk (talk • contribs) 08:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Facelift

I rewrote a majority of this article, and added photos and more useful information. I felt the old article focued too much on the negative aspect of Pattaya (crime and prostitution). I left references to them up, but did not allow them to be the focus of the article. I also cleaned up a plethora of spelling and grammatical errors.

This article now needs details on other non-beach and non-drinking entertainment in Pattaya.

--Hobgoblin 20:02, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that prostitution IS a negative aspect of Pattaya - it's what a lot of guys go there for, de-facto legal, and a huge part of the economy.

--Mister Handy

Perhaps "negative" was the wrong term to use. However, I wanted to add additional information to this page, so the prostitution aspect of Pattaya doesn't weigh in any heavier than any other. There is much more to this city than the bar grils and street boys. I feel the additions put Pattaya in a different light to Wiki readers who don't know much about it.

Hobgoblin 16:38, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think someone should put a map showing exactly where this city is in Thailand. I'm sure many would agree. --Derrill 21:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

This paragraph needs to be reworked: Historically Pattaya has had comparatively high levels of crime, sometimes attributed to organised crime in the sex industry. In addition, a string of apparently related murders, all western tourists, occurred around Pattaya in 1975, are now believed to have been committed by the Frenchman Charles Sobhraj. The 2nd sentence doesn't follow the first and is very confusing. --67.170.100.27 06:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I will add my 2c worth to this discussion of Pattaya. Prostitution exists everywhere, in many different forms. As for it being 'infamous', that is debatable. I suggest that if anyone is seriously stressed about the state of the sex workers in Pattaya that they visit east Thailand, and look at the endless roles of sweat shops, sorry, garment factories and appliance assembly factories. That is the poorly paid life many of the girls in Pattaya are escaping from. For many life as a prostitute for a few years is a wise career move. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian@perth (talk • contribs) 07:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia, not tourist guide

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a tourist guide, so things like bus operating hours don't really belong here. Could I kindly suggest moving such content over to Wikitravel's Pattaya page, which is meant for such information? Jpatokal 18:02, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. Seems like someone who wanted to be very helpful and (possibly) share her/his experiences of her/his travel to Pattaya, started to expand this article into a tourist guide.
I added a "neutrality disputed" tag, but maybe the article should rather be cleaned up. --Trygfe 21:35, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Trygfe, what in specific is your neutrality concern? MCB 06:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
MCB, I will be specific, but the list is fairly long, and I didn't want to "maim" this article without a second opinion. Here are some passages I found.
  • "The excess tourism business gave Pattaya many problems such as water pollution, petty crimes and prostitution."
  • "[..] a number of companies offer inexpensive door-to-door transport"
  • "[..] although drivers sometimes attempt to ask for more"
  • "The section of beach from Central Road (Pattaya Klang) south to the harbor is directly adjacent to the core of Pattaya's abundant nightlife spots. Therefore is much less family-oriented than North Pattaya, Naklua and Jomtien Beach."
  • "Pattaya also has numerous exotic clubs such as go-go bars and cabaret shows to suit all tastes."
  • "Because of Pattaya's status as a major tourist destination, it's important to note that like any other major tourist area, petty crime does exist"
  • "Problems are easily avoided either by abstaining from such activities altogether, or by patronising the more 'respectable' establishments"
  • "Other crimes include drinking-related offences such as fights, which are generally between tourists."
  • "The quality of DVD movies can vary from perfect quality to simply a bootlegged version"
  • "Generally, a DVD movie will only be of good quality if its DVD release date in the United States has already passed."
  • "[..] only perform raids on shops and vendors for publicity."
What's "neutral" and what's not, obviously, can be a matter of discussion.
Then, of course, there's the helpful guidebook orientation of the article, focused on sharing the experience of a visit to Pattaya, not necessarily sharing facts. --Trygfe 17:22, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

hey the place isn't all that bad I LIVE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give it some credit! Even I can say that as a single female for the USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.147.32.70 (talk) 18:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] NPOV issues - underplaying the night-life issues

It strikes me that this article could really do with a reality check. The description makes it sounds more like HK Disneyland than one of the largest brothel towns in the world. I am all in favour of representing both sides of Pattaya but this article is not far from being outright misleading. At the very least this article violates undue weight rules: WP:NPOV#Undue_weight ; I would argue for the return of a NPOV tag NickCwik 12:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. While this article shouldn't be a tourist guide (much less an adult sex guide) it should mention the major aspects of the city that set it apart from other cities and cause it to be a tourist destination (beaches, culture, food, and yes the sex industry). While a recent revision by BJ added too much detailed information, like specific prices for various sexual activities, the adult entertainment should certainly receive a short concise paragraph like what existed prior to BJ's additions. It is an integral part of the city's economy and is what attracts a significant portion of foreign visitors, like it or not. The subsequent revisions deleted the "Nightlife" content altogether replacing it with personal tirades against sex tourism which are obviously inappropriate in the article itself and should be discussed here, if anywhere. An article about Pattaya that doesn't even mention Walking Steet is like an article about Paris that doesn't mention the Eiffel Tower. Not mentioning the sex industry would be like not mentioning the movie industry in an article about Hollywood. Not only is it one of the city's major current industries, it is a big reason why the city exists in the first place. 11/15/2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.206.33.97 (talk • contribs) 18:27, November 17, 2006 (UTC).

A NPOV tag has now been added. I suggest incorporating some of the material from Prostitution in Thailand into this article (although I accept that that page could really do with some work too), but obviously maintaining the parts on other aspects of the city. I am also concerned about the frequent use of weasel words in this article (eg "Pattaya's main attractions are its beaches" (not, one of and relatively minor) and "Pattaya is renowned for its exciting nightlife, some of which revolves around the sex oriented industry." (emphasis added)). I understand that there is already an article on prostitution in Thailand, but as one of, if not the primary, focal point of said prostitution this article needs adjustment. I'm not keen to write a large chunk myself but I'll have a go at some of what is already there to try and deal with the worst of the weasel. NickCwik 22:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Funny, I have gone to Pattaya for years and fools who run it down as the biggest 'brothel' town in the world should maybe GO THERE some time? You will find real prostitution on similar scales in some poor african countries and even the likes of Brazil. We have a famous Star Trek saying whilst there .... "Its prostitution Jim, but not as we know it". It is NOT prostitution as we see it in the western world. There is little debate that the city is crammed full of young ladies who will undertake sexual pleasures for money, but unlike western prostitutes the pick and choose their prey.

There is no argument, that Pattaya would not exist without these ladies but it is far from the only thing there. Pattaya is a growing vibrant city, with Thai wonders around it. Granted it is not the same as going to Khon Kaen BUT IT IS A HOLIDAY DESTINATION! I have a condo in Pattaya and reading some of the crap above enrages me. Give the country/city and girls a break!

Some of the attractions include, Sanctury of Truth, Million year BC park, Nong Nouch, hyper boat rides, wonderful countryside, some of the finest eating establishments in Thailand, Walking Street, they even have Ice bars, yes made of ice, transport chaos, all of which goes to make Pattaya what it is ... P-A-T-T-A-Y-A NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. This is a holiday destination and regardless of what you think, there is obviously going to be some form of tourist information included in the information pages!

[edit] Population

Do we have a source for "the real population is probably closer to 500,000"? I don't know what area that 500,000 is supposed to be living in (what are the limits of Pattaya city?), but that seems a remarkably high figure. HenryFlower 18:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WTF

"Comment: The term "prostitution" used above is a western concept in a foreign land. Americans go on 'dates' where a woman/man may be expected to have sex after seeing a movie and/or having dinner with a 'friend'. In Thai traditional culture, a woman or man expects to receive a 'gift' for entertaining a man, or a gift may be presented to receive entertainment. Such entertainment may include sex and the man may be a close friend or a total stranger. Likewise, the gift may be money, but most women or men do not think of the process as 'prostitution', but instead think of it more like the American term 'date'.... Some foreign residents do not offer money to the women they 'date' and have some success with their partners.."

Whoever worte this has not spent more then 2 min in Thailand. Prostitution is a Thai (not to mention GLOBAL) concept. In Thai traditional culture there was no "dating" as in the western sence but it now common, and while some people may end the date with sex, it is a personal choice of no cultural requierment. Infact it is frownd apon in by the older generations it's kind like teh 1950's here in terms of sexual-freedom. Going out generaly is done in groups (safety and keeps cost down) but there is no expectation (only the universal hope to get some) of a "gift". Finally Prostitution is a very common business here, mostly catered to Thai men... my point is that the above should be removed and that prostitution is a common concept in Thailand as it is in the west, the only diffrence being the way it is preceved by the diffrent cultures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.91.188.156 (talk) 15:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] added NPOV tag

"Unlike Bangkok, Pattaya has no magical mystery hidden in aesthetic corners, and it makes no pretence of being anything more than what it is: - an unbeatable combination of essential, thoroughly satisfying holiday ingredients."

The entire indtroduction runs along this tone. This is more of a travel brochure for the city than an encyclopedic article.--129.173.121.142 17:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)