Talk:Patriotic Youth League

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[edit] Racist and neo-Nazi claims

"nationalistic, racist, neo-nazi youth organization in Australia" - Isnt this a rather one-sided view of it? Can anyone give a more NPOV description of this org?

Um... that is an NPOV description. Let's break it down.
1. They're nationalisitc.
2. They're racist.
3. They're a neo-nazi group.
4. They're a youth organization. FightDemBack 07:33, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Removed defamatory POV. - NZNF
I've restored it but attributed it to the Sydney Morning Herald. SlimVirgin (talk) 06:30, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
Much better. ;) - Molloy
To be neo-Nazis, you have to admire Adolf Hitler and also use either Swastikas or imagery resembling Nazi aesthetics. They do neither. I changed the adjective "neo-Nazi" to "anti-Multiculturalist" because it's more appropriate.

--The Lizard Wizard 16:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

I've restored my intro again, and have moved this: "Sydney President Andrew Wilson admitted to The Herald that Stuart McBeth founded an Australian branch of the Volksfront, an American neo-Nazi group, and that the PYL shares a PO Box with same." As it was the second sentence, the reader didn't know what "Sydney president" meant, or who Andrew Wilson and Stuart McBeth were. I had to guess that "Sydney president" meant president of the Sydney branch of the PYL, and that's how I've described him; if that's wrong, please correct. SlimVirgin (talk) 18:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Homophobia

Is the PYL homophobic? Or quite tolerant about homosexuals in society?

[edit] Links

I've put the links to FightDemBack and the PYL spoof back, as they're entirely relevant to the subject at hand. Both were created to oppose the PYL... to omit them is unencyclopedic and POV. FightDemBack 03:28, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I've put the PYL spoof link back, Jason... I'll explain why, in a second. For the record, when you removed the "four" FDB links before, you removed the spoof page and the actual link to FDB, leaving the Darpism link up. What the? I'd posit that the Darpism link is relevant, because Darpism practically destroyed the PYL, but I'll concede that since it's all repeated in FDB, it's no longer necessary. You can't remove the PYL spoof on the basis of POV, homes... Everything in those external links has a POV. The PYL website has a POV. The PYL's blog has a POV. FDB has a POV. It's relevant, and it should stay.

[edit] Nazis etc.

Anon, let me break it down for you.

The PYL is the youth wing of violent neo-nazi group National Action. Nazis. PYL members, including Stuart McBeth and Luke Connors, post on neo-nazi forum Stormfront. Nazis. Stuart McBeth believes Aryans have a higher culture [[1]]. Nazis.

What I want you to do, is read those articles there on the page. Read all of the words, and note the dates before coming up with any more political malice theories.

Let's work on making this the most accurate encyclopedia that we can, okay. Cheers FightDemBack 14:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I hate to but in here, as you probably know, I still contribute to several (non WP related) articles around here, I think you need to review your definition of "Nazi". (As some may know, I no longer contribute to the WP scene, I'm just here to be encyclopedic.)
From dictionary.com Na·zi: A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
The PLY is not a member party of the NSDAP, considering the NSDAP died out in 1945, the claim that they are related is just not feasible. They do, however, subscribe to the politics of National Socialism, and in this light, I am changed the opening paragraph. - Molloy
There is wide agreement that the original Nazi movement mostly ended after 1945. Modern movements that support National Socialist goals are called Neo-Nazis. Neo-Nazism is not directly tied to Hitler's Nazism but rather to that of Rockwell and other fascists of the 1960s. Nobody is going to confuse the two. However, since it is a contentious appellation we should use it with attribution. Cheers, -Willmcw June 28, 2005 06:53 (UTC)

My edit of the opening sentence was intended to get across that the PYL themselves deny being neo-Nazis, but are (fairly credibly) accused of actually being.

Also, unless anyone has any information to the contrary, the PYL are not linked to National Action, but to Jim Saleam (former head of National Action). --Apeloverage 05:50, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Right that is it. I am sick of people not calling ideologies by their proper name. Pleas stop saying neo-nazis or nazis they are all called National Socialists. Neo-nazis and nazis are slang words. You people are makeing Wikipedia into a web site of slang.--DePeRe 10:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia should creat whole new article about National Socialism of the 1870's since the National Socialism back than is diffrent to National Socialism of the 1920's to the pressent day. Adolf Hitler hijacked the word National Socialism and currepted it to his likeing. He did it to the swastika to.--DePeRe 10:26, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cronulla disturbances

PYL mentioned in this news story:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536340-2,00.html

Vryl 03:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Newcastle

No mention here of the Newcastle PYL rally against the Sudanese community. As I was at the counter-rally (pro-diversity), I can contribute but accept that my interpretation will be POV. Sumthingweird 18:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eureka Flag

I have removed the paragraph which states that the PYL's use of the Eureka flag is ironic. Whether or not it is "ironic" is strictly POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.234.103 (talk • contribs)

good decision.

[edit] White supremacist or White Nationalist

They're actually both. What should they be described as up the top? Drett

They call themselves 'white nationalist'. The media and commentators call them 'white supremacist' - I'd just include that along with neo-nazi in the following sentence. michael talk 22:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but the Patriotic Youth League does not have a great reputation when it comes to honesty. I think we should really be aiming for as accurate an entry as possible. Drett
They've defined themselves as 'white nationalist', regardless of some of the activities/behaviour of their members and media/public perception. Just add in 'supremacist' in the next line, along with neo-nazi. michael talk 07:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I've defined myself as an eskimo man called Brian O'Harradine von Trankintrop. That doesn't mean that I should be listed in an encylopedia as Brian O'Harradine von Trankintrop, because that clearly isn't my name. I can't find anywhere on the PYL website where they define themselves as 'white nationalists.' John Drew, on the PYL QLD page describes them as a 'radical nationalist' organisation, and Jim Saleam tends to refer to himself as a National Bolshevik, but I would have thought that their member's pre-occupation with wearing neo-nazi symbols and WS fashions would indicate that the actual youth members themselves define themselves as neo-nazis. Drett 20:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I just cleaned up the links. One or two were old, not working, or not updated. Also, I don't know if we need that Blinky Bill one. It is funny, but is it needed? Might be... DarkSideOfTheSpoon 10:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I re(?)-removed the spoof site link. Per WP:EL, external links are supposed to be informative. -Will Beback 08:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay... I restored the spoof link (before) because it was back up, having been DDOSed a few weeks ago. It was removed on June 13 because it was not working. I think it's relevant to the article, because it's an example of one of the forms of opposition to the PYL, and because it has garnered so much (Australian) attention: It's been involved in a court case, has featured on the front page of at least two suburban newspapers, and has been mentioned in both The Age and the Herald Sun.
If that's the case then it'd be appropriate to devote a paragraph, or at least a sentence, to the website in a "criticism" section. Could you write up a brief summary of the website's notoriety? -Will Beback 18:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
How's that? I wasn't sure how it should be referenced. First article was in the Sunbury Telegraph (1/2/05) [2] There were some more frontpages in the Sunbury/Hume papers after Medcraft announced his legal action. There was also a story in the Age and the Herald Sun last week regarding the outcome (although they contradicted each other) and a gossip column piece in the Age when the case was first heard a few months ago. Drett 23:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
That's excellent, much better than a plain link at the bottom of the page. Thanks for writing it. -Will Beback 00:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Commies out of controll

Comrades. Stop this. Fightdemback you are a bunch of fare left communists who can't help your selvs. I know that PYL and AFP are just fronts for the interests of the capitalists. But they are not nazis or neo-nazis. Why don't you call them National Socialists because they are. Any way as I have already said on the AFP talk page. FightDemBack and Drett are reds who are branches of Fight Dem Back. Here is a good link to visit about the AFP and PYL [3]--PETER THE GREAT 13:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

This talk page is for discussing useful changes to the article. Please refrain from using talk pages to spam the Communist Party of Warwick High School. Drett 21:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

He isn't spamming any thing. BRFF is just a anti AFP and anti PYl web site. The party according to it's site is called Communist Party of Warwick not what you said. --DePeRe 10:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The big joke with Peter Watson's claims is that he is a Communist and the current General Secretary of the Communist Party of Warwick. He is also the ex-president of the group. What is even more odd is that even though he is a red he is also a major racist. But than he claims that racists and nazis must be killed. People don't take any attention to this man he is just another troll. So if there is any so called reds who are out of controll it's Peter. Plus I must also add that so what if Drett and FightDemBack are reds what is it to you Peter?--DePeRe 10:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

So what is happeing idiots (i.e Will BEback , Fight Dem back and Drett who are all puppets of the anarchist FDB)--61.69.193.248 14:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PYL is dead

I think Patriotic Youth League is dead. Nearly all their web sites are dead or changed their names. --59.100.84.239 11:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

If nobody else gets around to it, I will be updating the article. James Saleam was expelled from the AFP months ago.--Ottre 01:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed trivia pertaining to PYL affiliations

"Many PYL members also use the white supremacist Stormfront message board."

According to the current Wikipedia entry, the Stormfront message board is not explicitly white supremacist. As it were, saying so constitutes a breach of Wikipedia's official policy of neutrality. Additionally, the website does not function as a political organisation; as such, it can not be considered an affiliation of the PYL group.--Ottre 01:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)