Talk:Pat Nixon

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Good article Pat Nixon has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
November 9, 2007 Good article nominee Listed
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Contents

[edit] Newspaper articles

I have a copy of the article, and I will post a quote from it sometime later this week. Wjhonson 16:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, that would be good. Wasted Time R 16:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
"Mrs Patricia Nixon, wife of Vice-President Richard M. Nixon, charmed our city of Seattle, when it had a brief glimpse of Mrs Richard M Nixon, and their two little daughters Patricia 12 years and Julia 10 made an overnight stop en-route from Washington D.C. to Alaska. Mrs Nixon is always reported to be gracious and friendly. And she sure is friendly. She greets a stranger as a friend. She doesn't just shake hands but clasps a visitors hand in both her hands. Her manner is direct. Slim, red-gold hair, and brown eyes. Mrs Nixon also upheld her reputation of always looking neat, no matter how long her day has been. Since she is a seasoned travelor rough weather on the flight out didn't bother her. But the Nixon daughters were air-sick most of the way. Mrs Nixon's favorite topic was their daughters. Mrs Nixon said she doesn't want their daughters to grow up too fast and doesn't think they want to either. The two Nixon daughters have been studying Alaska. "They have been studying Alaska in school said Mrs Nixon and we decided the trip would be educational for them and worth the loss of two days of school. Also they want a dog sled ride." Tricia and Julie transferred from public school to the Sidwell Friends School operated by the Quakers this Fall. The school along with all Washington D.C. schools has no segregation Mrs Nixon explained. There are Negroes in both her daughters classes. I come from the West," said Mrs Nixon "and I want my daughters to have the same belief about the wrong of segregation as I always have had. Mrs Nixon seems to thrive on her busy life. "I like it was her simple comment." Mrs Nixon gives at least two parties a weeks most of them in her 11 room house. She runs her house with the aid of a couple a Washington term for a married couple that lives in Washington D.C. The couple has two days off a week, so I put in a little of kitchen work duty said Mrs Richard M. Nixon besides my girls likes Mommies cooking best."
It's too big for the article possible, but maybe some bits can be used. Wjhonson 16:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
You need the paper's name and the date. Wasted Time R 17:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Seattle Times, 1 Nov 1958

[edit] Portrait painted

According to writer E. Graydon Carter in Time magazine on 7 December 1981, Pat Nixon's official WH portrait was completed in 1978 by Henriette Wyeth Hurd; it was not hung in the White House until 1981, because PN reportedly didn't want it hung until her husband's was completed and the paintings could be hung at the same time.Mowens35 19:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 04:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Her name

Where does Patricia come from? Pat was a nickname, not a shortened version of her real name. For that matter, shouldn't her real name, Thelma Catherine Ryan, be included in the opening sentence? MK2 21:05, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe that may be a mistake. Pat is a common familiar form of Thelma. I know it makes no sense, but there ya go. We propably need a good source on her name being "Patricia" because it may not be true. Wjhonson 16:46, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the National First Ladies' Library, she "assumed" the names Pat/Patricia after the death of her father. She was known as Pat from childhood, due to her birth on the eve of St. Patrick's Day. Nothing I have found indicates that she legally changed her name to Patricia. Also in a 1959 New York Times profile of the future First Lady, her name is given, in the headline, as Thelma Ryan Nixon ("Diplomat in High Heels: Thelma Ryan Nixon", The New York Times, 28 July 1959, page 11). Mowens35 22:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Her legal name of Thelma is also used in the titles and text of two other New York Times profiles of Pat Nixon, one published in 1971 and another in 1972 (both of which are cited in the Wiki article).Kitchawan 20:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

What's the correct spelling of "Catherine" in her name...we have 2 versions in article. BostonRed 20:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Good article nomination on hold

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of November 6, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: one sentence need work: "On a trip to Venezuela, their limousine was pelted with rocks, and the Nixons were spat upon as representatives of the U.S. government, but Pat Nixon's warm personality and calm, even stoic public demeanor, then and later, won her much admiration." I would split and clean up commas;
Y Done Happyme22 05:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
2. Factually accurate?: well-referenced
3. Broad in coverage?: mostly, but the first time Pat Nixon was mentioned in a nationwide address was the "Checkers speech" (September 23, 1952) which has numerous references to Pat and their daughters... I would include that in the marriage and family section (the photo is from that speech) or the campaign section, as this speech was during Nixon's 1952 campaign for VP. The campaign section is light for a candidate's wife, where the candidate ran for national office 5 times in 30 years...
Y Done - The campain section was meant to focus on Pat Nixon's time after she was Second Lady to before she became First Lady. Anyway, I have added about the checker's speech. Happyme22 05:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Neutral point of view?: it is balanced and fair
5. Article stability? quite stable
6. Images?: all are free or contain appropriate rationales

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far.— Argos'Dad 04:50, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have taken care of the two matters listed here. This article should be good to go. Thanks, Happyme22 05:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Well it's probably a bit rude of me to butt in, but I have to say that I don't think the article is NPOV at all, since to being with, the dominant source is a book written by the daughter of the stubject. There is also a lot of unsourced parts, eg "Pat Nixon's warm personality and calm, even stoic, public demeanor won her much admiration. With her non-political image as loyal wife and dutiful mother, Pat was difficult to dislike, even by Nixon's fiercest critics." - which is POV. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I second Bln's concerns - the article should not be passed whilst Eisenhower's book is a prominent reference. — H2O —  08:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
It is a fair biography of her mother. It contains much info about Mrs. Nixon because it is written by her daughter; it contains quotes from Pat as well as valuable information about her time as FL. Yes, I can see how that info is POV, and I have gone over the article thoroughly. If you see anything else, please feel free to remove it. Happyme22 15:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
It would have been better if one of you had chosen to review the article for the month that it sat nominated as a Good Article. I understand your concern about a daughter's book representing POV, however, it is not always the case. See, e.g., Mommie Dearest. In this case, I think the aspect that must drive a decision on POV is whether there are other critical and different views that could be included. I found and recommend incorporating the following:
  • She was the first to disclose publicly her pro-choice view on abortion in reaction to questions on the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe vs. Wade decision. Before she even began unrelentingly to lobby her husband to name a woman to the Supreme Court, she called for such an appointment publicly. She even became the first First Lady to appear publicly in pants and model them for a national magazine, reflecting the radical change in women's attire that critics derided as masculine. Still, Pat Nixon valued her identity as a middle-class homemaker, supportive wife and devoted mother and was often depicted as the quintessential traditionalist in relief to the popular persona of the "liberated woman." www.firstladies.org
Y Done Happyme22 01:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The Arrogance of Power: The Secret World of Richard Nixon seems indicates that Pat Nixon was a "secret smoker". That may be relevant and is presented as a criticism. The insinuation of Oliver Stone in the movie "Nixon" that Pat was an alcoholic (a point discussed in Stephen Ambrose's book Nixon, but with thin support, it seems) could also be mentioned to balance the article.
See below. Happyme22 01:16, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe that your raising the question of POV at this point is relevant and will seek to have the editors address it, and as has been suggested, please add any published criticisms or alternative views that you know of. Argos'Dad 20:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
After talking about this with another editor previously, we could find no credible source that Mrs. Nixon was an alcoholic. We could include spectualtion accounts, I supppose, for balance but the page number for that book is necessary. And yes, Pat was a occasional smoker; we have mentioned that in the later life section. Happyme22 01:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

In the absence of further discussion, I am going to promote this article as a Good Article based on my review of the criteria. Argos'Dad 00:35, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Would be good to find another, more distanced biography to enhance the article. A beloved and protective daughter's reminiscences cannot be relied upon entirely, however well-reviewed the book.Kitchawan 00:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

A great source has been the First Lady Biographic Info, but I would agree that a better variety is needed. Happyme22 00:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Views on Abortion

The link to the First Ladies Library states that Pat Nixon was pro-choice; however, the only verifiable comment I can find from her is decidedly mixed, even nervous, and was said during a news conference at the White House in 1972. Can anyone find a verifiable pro-choice comment for her? Because if it's the comment cited in the UPI report published in the New York Times, she only said, "I'm really not for abortion. It is a personal thing". Which isn't exactly the same thing as a pro-choice statement.Kitchawan 20:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Succession

Pat Nixon was NOT succeeded by Lady Bird Johnson as First Lady. She was succeeded by Betty Ford. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.187.51.51 (talk) 17:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Correct, and that is what is stated in the article. She was succeeded by Lady Bird Johnson as Second Lady of the US, however. Happyme22 (talk) 04:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Siege of Fort Stevens

Several Times you have cited that Pat Nixon was the first First Lady to visit a combat zone. My source is http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/dc/dc001.html. Toward the end of this web site it states "On July 12, 1864, President Abraham Lincoln went out to Fort Stevens with his wife and other officers and stood on the parapet...." If this website is true, then Pat Nixon was not the first First Lady to visit a combat zone. Mary Todd Lincoln was the first First Lady in 1864. Pat Nixon may have been the second or third. I am also looking for hard evidence that First Lady, Dolly Payne Madison was also at a combat zone but have only found accounts of how she removed Paintings and documents from the White House before the British Troops arrived. Dolley Payne Madison was never in a combat zone but Mary Todd Lincoln was according to some accounts. There was no Press with cameras during the Civil War unlike the Vietnam War to record such an event but that does not diminish the fact that the Siege of Fort Stevens was a combat zone. User:Squirrel06 --Squirrel06 (talk) 14:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC) 06:48 31 January 2008

Well I have this very reliable source that states Mrs. Nixon was the first First Lady to visit a combat zone. I find this to be more credible because, as you yourself stated, there was no press that followed the first lady around during the Civil War. Happyme22 (talk) 20:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)