Talk:Pasta

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Delisted version: October 15, 2007


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Contents

[edit] Protein

The article states 13g of protein. That seems high. Is it per serving and if so how big is the serving size 4.142.45.70 (talk) 04:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)reddy

[edit] Comment 1

Well, evidence confirms that pasta was invented in China. That 2000 BCE bowl of pasta still looked edible too.

Then again, all that means is that it is the oldest found. There was older. -intranetusa

[edit] Comment 2

"pasta is a type of noodle" -- This definition seems circular, as Collins dictionary (and my gut instinct ;) says "noodles" are a type of pasta. -- Tarquin Monday, June 17, 2002

I'd love someone to fix up this noodle business. In British English 'noodle' implies just one kind of pasta-shape - one that's long and thin. Calling farfalle/fusilli/penne/ravioli etc 'noodles' is thus very odd - is this widespread usage in USA/other English-speaking nations? 87.115.228.253 20:05, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I've a different story about the origins of the pasta. It seems that pasta comes from the south of Italy, from Sicily, as a variant of an Arab food. That was a food that nomads tribes used during their long travels around the desert because it was easy to conserve.

2-11-2004

A nice story, but not very likely, I dont think that they would cary extra water with them for cooking noodels. Noodel-s (from Latin Nodus) or Pasta(also from a latin word) where known in ancient Greece and Italy for way over 2000 Years long before Arabs set foot on Nort-African soil.--62.178.137.216 12:24, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Comment 3

Is there a difference between dry and 'fresh' pasta? As in "Under Italian law, dry pasta can only be made from durum wheat semolina flour. " --Rcollman 20:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black ravioli

I had black ravioli for the first time last night. What makes it black? Someone suggested squid ink. Evertype 12:10, 2005 Mar 20 (UTC)

Usually it`s coloured with Sepia-ink the same ink that is used in Asia for traditionell painting and calligraphy.62.178.137.216 17:18, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

don't know if the wiki was lifted from this site or the site was lifted from the wiki... but someone's plagiarizing: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Pasta ( - unsigned)

They've copied from here. They're allowed to do that: it's not plagiarism because they provide a link back to the original article, as required by the GFDL (though it's very, very, very, ver tiny), and they don't present the work as their own. - Nunh-huh 00:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well pasta is made with cheese so it was probably moldy cheese.

[edit] Vermicelli

In the article is written that Vermicelli are thinner than Spaghetti instead in Italy Spaghetti are thinner. Is it a mistake or an American different naming?

Since nobody replied I put that vermicelli are thicker than spaghetti and deleted spaghettoni and vermicelloni that are not typical kinds of pasta but a commercial invention. --Zimbricchio 08:23, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Vermicelli are thinner then Spaghetti! The name means little worms btw. even thinner are capelli di angeli, angelshair. ;-)62.178.137.216 13:22, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Spaghetti means little strings, but the translations don't help
ok, that means we'll write both
--Zimbricchio 18:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pasta numbers

I have recently seen in several mediterranean countries that pasta packages there are labeled with a number that indicates the pasta shape. These pasta-shape numbers appear to be a vendor-independent list. I wonder, where one can find the full list of these standard pasta numbers. Markus Kuhn 12:10, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The numbers are not standardized. See cut number. --Macrakis 23:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Noodles (again)

[edit] Die

In the line "Pasta is made either by extrusion, where the ingredients are forced through holes in a plate known as a die" there is a link to die in wikipedia but this link only goes to many different types of the word die. can this link be made more specific and is there an actual page to link to? --iceman 16:02, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

changed the die link to Die (manufacturing). And just noticed that page does not mention food. :) --Rcollman 16:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perogies

Are perogies pasta? Should they be mentioned? What about Asian forms of pasta, such as won-ton? Fishhead64 18:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC) I think you are running into the dialect difference in noodle/pasta discussed above. Chinese noodles are discussed in their own article and I would never consider them pasta. I would consider pierogi neither noodles nor pasta. Rmhermen 21:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, they look somewhat like ravioli, but no, they shouldn't be considered pasta. You might put a meaningless line in there, like, "Ravioli can sometimes be confused with pasta," even though that's not true at all. --Knightskye 05:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I know this is an old comment, but I'm both polish and Italian and I never quite looked at Perogies as pasta. I believe they are made differently, but don't quote me on that. Perhaps completely different cooking material as well? WiiAlbanyGirl 04:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marco Polo

I was under the impression that Marco Polo brought back the idea of pasta back from China to Venice c1300? Is this completely untrue? What exactly are these images on an Etruscan tomb that 'prove' the existence of pasta in Italy before then? Is there any record of the Romans eating Pasta? I would have thought there would be plenty of Roman pasta recipes in existence, seeing as they copied most other things from the Etruscans. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.5.200.56 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] American Pasta

I snipped the bit about when pasta was brought to the United States. It it's irrelevent to the history of pasta as no new development of pasta occured. It is also not the place to list when pasta arrived to various countries, are you going to list when it arrived to Japan, Estonia and Bavaria also? Otherwise the POV is Americo-centric.

If you want to include this section, and if it is indeed that interesting, I suggest a "pasta in the USA section"

Thomas Jefferson is credited with bringing the first macaroni machine to America in 1789 when he returned home after serving as ambassador to France.[citation needed] The first commercial pasta manufacturer in America was Antoine Zerega, a Frenchman of Italian descent who began making pasta in Brooklyn, New York City, New York, in 1848.[1]

Dimensional dan 01:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Brown Rice Pasta

I've just discovered this stuff, the only ingredient is brown rice but its somehow processed to behave exactly like traditional pasta. It seems very awkward considering it not to be a pasta, because it works best in traditional pasta dishes and it as marketed as a pasta, although a purist definition might exclude it. I think it should be mentioned in the article though. I couldn't find anything about it on wikipedia, and this is an appropriate article for it. (In case you havn't tried it and are skeptical: personally I think its better than any supermarket variety dried pastas.) Brentt 18:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Should be cooked

Changed "It should always be cooked 'al dente' - with a slight bite" to "It is traditionally cooked..." 161.149.63.105 21:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pasta Machine

In the entire Wiki there seems to be no mention of the process of creating sheet or ribbon pasta with a 'pasta machine' or 'mangle', perhaps someone with more knowledge of the process could add it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.159.18.197 (talk) 22:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Hope this good comment has been taken care of. Somebody did a nice job of generally describing machines used to make round and flat pasta. In the Preparation section, I just added the word 'machines' to make it clearer. I think machines are types of tools, and a type of noodle can be called pasta  :) --Rcollman 19:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA pass

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

[edit] Introduction

It seems to me that the introduction is misleading and inaccurate. Here are some suggestions:

Pasta is a type of grain food made from the flour of certain grains ---> Pasta is a food made from the flour of various grains...

While the name comes from Italy-- and pasta is widely considered an Italian food--, pasta is very popular all over the world.

The English word pasta generally refers to noodles and other food products made from a flour and water paste, often including egg and salt. More frequently, the term maccheroni (macaroni in English) is used for the same products, especially when in combination with cheese. (Huh? What?)---> Pasta takes various forms, from long thin spaghetti, to smaller shapes such as bows (farfalle), tubes (penne) and shells (conchigli).

Why single out noodles and macaroni cheese? I don't understand the significance. We have also already mentioned the fact that pasta is made from flour, water and egg.

Opinions? Rednaxela 21:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I've already made the nessasary corrections in this well sourced section. This will provide ample clarification without the use of pasta is widely considered an Italian food which some might consider a violation of Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words.
Phillip Rosenthal 17:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone speak Italian?

Anyone who speaks italian, it would be good if we could basically translate some parts from the pasta article in the Italian Wikipedia, because that article seems to have more info. Just a suggestion. Arnesh 00:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to do that once I free myself from my current commitments. Phillip Rosenthal 08:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Superiority of leavened bread?

The second paragraph in the history section is just laughable in my mind. The Jewish tradition uses unleavened bread as a symbol of sinlessness, but it's not viewed as superior. Jews happily eat leavened bread times other than the Passover (otherwise they'd have none to get rid of in their Passover preparations). In Christianity, no food is viewed as better than another. Roman Catholicism has some preferences for fish (eg) on certain days, but that doesn't justify this comment. I would suggest that the whole paragraph be reconsidered and reworked. (This para written by a Protestant (ie Christian) pastor). NigelCunningham 06:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the paragraph is true to the attributed citations and merely points out that in some traditions and circles, leavened bread is considered a socially acceptable meal complete with it's own minor place in religion as compared to greuls. The paragraph does not claim superiority in generic terms but in terms of general acceptabilty and practical social consumption. On a personal note, I can't recall the last time I tasted greuls or mushes at the house of a Jew friend; leavened bread is always found at the table. I too, would generally not offer greuls or mushes to my guests. Phillip Rosenthal 08:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm a pressmen. That means I make pasta for a living.

Around 80,000 pounds daily to be exact. Anyways Vermicelli is Angel hair just translated. If you want a die section I can write one up for you. I was think about writing a modern pasta making section but that would take a couple of hours for me to be happy with it. Dies are made of of a bronze alloy that are carved by industrial lasers. After they are carve a Pressman assembles the die by putting in the inserts which make the minor shapes of the pasta coming out. The die is actually 2 different parts which are put together to create certain pastas. Dies come in 2 shapes either big circles or rectangles of varying sizes depending on the head it is hooking up to. These dies generally way around 400 pounds although they range from 70 pounds to 600 pounds. Dies cost from 7000 and 13000 a pair since most presses use 2 dies. Rectangle dies make long pasta like spaghetti and are generally 3 to 9 inches high, 3 to 5 feet wide and 4 to 10 inches wide. Circle dies make short pastas like orzo or elbows and are 4 to 14 inches high having a radius from 6 to 24 inches. The reason for the differing shapes is because the cutting of the pastas. Circles dies use blades that rotate pressed up against a die as the pasta shape comes out. Rectangle dies is a very hard to explain how it works. Pasta gets drapped over a beam and cut after a set amount of seconds. This beam or stick as it is called is pulled along a line which gets cut by a "trim knim" to equal all the lengths out of the strands that had been draped. We take this "trim" which is what is cut off the bottom on the long strands and we reuse it by putting it back in the mixer and it is recycled. Nothing a pasta plant is wasted unless it hits the floor and then we sell it to pigfeeders. They literally use the waste as pigfeed and then you eat the pig. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pastatech (talk • contribs) 21:01, 22 April 2007

Very nice description of a commercial pasta operation! --Rcollman 16:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phillip Rosenthal

Phillip Rosenthal (block log) has been permanently blocked as a sockpuppet of Freedom skies (block log · checkuser confirmed), who has a history of

The Arbitration Committee has found that Freedom skies has "repeatedly engaged in edit-warring" and placed him on revert parole.
When examining Freedom skies' edits, be mindful of the following:

JFD 00:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 0.7 pass

I have passed this article for inclusion in Wikipedia 0.7. Funpika 22:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Sweeps (on hold)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

  • Provide reference to "Under Italian law, dry pasta can only be made from durum wheat semolina flour.", "Dry pasta generally contains about 12.5% moisture, which makes it shelf stable for about three years."

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. Regards, OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:11, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I will now delist this article from GA list as it no longer meets GA criteria.

[edit] European narrowness

The article covers pretty much only Western European, or more precisely Italian, pasta and almost completely ignores all other types of pasta. The bias is actually so bad that I believe the article deserves to be tagged with a Template:Globalize of some sort if nothing is done about the problem.

Peter Isotalo 13:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Noodles again

"Some English speakers say that pastas are a type of noodle" - this is a vague sentence, especially for the introduction to an article.

The British consider noodles to be small, thin spaghetti/vermicelli pasta and with strong Asian connotations (See Chinese noodles). To my knowledge, Americans consider 'noodle' to be synonymous with 'pasta'.

Wikipedia has the following take on noodles: "A noodle is made from unleavened dough that has been shaped into thin flat strips or round cylinders and cooked in a boiling liquid. [...] In English, noodle is a generic term for unleavened dough made from many different types of ingredients and includes a variety of shapes. While similar, pasta refers specifically to the Italian products such as spaghetti, penne, or fettuccine that contain semolina flour."

Could we not leave mention of noodles out of the intro completely for simplicity's sake?

Rednaxela 14:39, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article messed up

Somebody just recently changed the beginning of this article. Since I am not an expert and English is not my mothertongue, would somebody else please change it back! Martinahoeppner 01:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

It says "the familiar legend of Marco Polo importing pasta from China is just that—a legend."

This sounds more like an opinion rather than something that belongs in an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki4419 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Italian??

It is not reasonable to say that pasta is Italian in the intro and then quote both Galen and the Talmud in the history section. Based on this article itself, pasta is most certainly NOT "Italian" - as the whole of the article makes clear, pasta is made and eaten in many cultures, and some of those significantly predate the Italian tradition. Pawthorn (talk) 20:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree. Either state that the origin is ambiguous (and explain why) or don't mention the origin in the lead paragraph. Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 09:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Choose a language for the name of the shapes of pasta

I think macaroni should be spelled maccheroni —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zimbricchio (talk • contribs) 13:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of colors and flavors

 Another contribution of the Italian noodle is that it comes in a variety of flavors and colors.  Red, pink, green, yellow, and grey just to name a few.  Spinach, beet, tomato, squid ink, potato are ingredients used.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sir Skylynx (talk • contribs) 09:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Pasta

 artistic representations of pasta have been found in Etruscan tombs, and Romans had a similar variety of cooked dough.  These are the ancestors of the modern day Italian, thus these finding should be included within the history of pasta.  It is unclear which culture the noodle originated in, but it is true to say that the Italian versions of the noodle has been influential in the world.  If one were to say that the earliest evidence of the noodle originates in Asia, it must also be said that the Asians adopted Italian varieties of noodle.  Therefore the Wiki pages pertaining to both "noodle" and "pasta" should make reference to these factors.  Currently the "Noodle" page reflects  mostly Asian reference.

. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sir Skylynx (talk • contribs) 09:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)