Talk:Partita for Violin No. 2 (Bach)

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Is it just me, or is this page kind of weak? I know vague criticism is mostly useless, but I don't know if anyone is watching this page. One thing I noticed is the page on the chaconne/ciaconna form claims spanish provenance, with this page claims italian. I always thought italian, but I'd like to find a more accurate reference.

Abruzzi 03:51, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I removed some of the more subjective ane emotional parts of this article as I think they are unencyclopedic in nature. I also removed the Brahms quote mainly because it distracts form the subject itself.

I added a general musical description of the piece in terms of key and subject. As for the origin of the dance, I am still not quite sure. Some sources (Britannica) states it as an originally spanish or mexican dance that was afterwards brought to Italy, afew others I have seen before hinted at an older Italian origin. Since I can not find these sources at the moment, I have changed it to spanish. If someone finds another source that supports the Italian origin, please reference it.

Does anyone else feel that there should be an article on the 6 sonatas and partitas for solo violin, and that the information here should be moved there? After all, these pieces (BWV1001-1006) are usually recorded together. Alcuin 02:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Complete Six

I think it is a very good idea to make an article combining all six works for unaccompanied violin. I am not sure if individual articles are needed for each individual work, but if we remove this one we probably have to dedicate a significant section of the larger article to Chaconne being as it is the most popular movement in the repretoire.

[edit] Duration

Dublin pedant writes: The page states "The ciaccona ... lasts some 13-14 minutes, surpassing the duration of the previous movements combined." This is not true for the Monica Huggett/Veritas recording (first 4 movements: 16 mins 40 secs, Chaconne: 14 mins); I doubt that this is true for other recordings either.

It could be that performing the previous movements without any repeats is shorter than performing the Chaconne alone -- but I've never tried to time that myself. Mademoiselle Fifi 15:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about all this about the Chaconne being some 13-14 mins. I don't play with any repeats for any of the songs and so it's pretty much shorter. Lady Nimue of the Lake 23:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree the duration figure seems questionable. Scott Slapin (on viola) plays the Chaconne in 16:04, the other movements total is 12 minutes. But Schlomo Mintz (who takes the repeats) plays the first 4 movements in 17 minutes, while the Chaconne is 15:18. In both cases, the length of the Chaconne is longer than the 11-14 minutes mentioned, and as we all know, there are no repeats in the Chaconne. David.kaplan 16:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Data point: Arthur Grumiaux takes 13'17" to work his way through the Chaconne. The timings for the other movements of the partita are 3'06" for the Allemanda, 1'58" for the Corrente, 3'05" for the Sarabanda, and 3'06" for the Giga. He takes the usual repeats, which is to say, he repeats the first section but not the second in each movement. Clearly the Chanconne makes up the bulk of this work.
By the way, I think we can all recognize the contributions of "Lady Nimue" for what they are: the earnest, if juvenile. writings of a high-school student, one who calls the sections of this piece "songs"; yet more evidence, if any were needed, of why this whole project is a sham and a farce and will ultimately fail. High school students should be reading encyclopedias, not writing them. +ILike2BeAnonymous 17:55, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big meta-discussion

I thank you most sincerely, User:ILike2BeAnonymous, though it is a bit true. However, I still like to contribute as much as I can even if my english is not very good. Maybe you would like to chase down every high school student and say the same to them? Lady Nimue of the Lake 00:41, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
WHO THE FREAKING HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU WEIRDO???!!! We honestly think that you are demented, biased and utterly disgraceful in the way that you behave to highschool students. Even if you are above highschool, we all go through that stage in life unless, of course, you skipped or simply didn't attend at all (giving you a valid reason to hate and scorn us). This doesn't mean that you are allowed to terrorize and intimidate teenagers! You don't realise that this is called a violation of the Terms Of Service (you are meant to only give advice and constructive criticism, not plain insults) and is also classified as statatory abuse. You disgust us. By the way, all high school students should not use wikipedia as their main source of resource, because wikipedia is inaccurate in some areas. Again, you disgust us.
Verivian Marx, CrAzYgIrL, Just Nod & Smile, icicles of light, User:Regeane Silverwolf, User:Silverwolf athame, luvisdaslowestformofsuicide. serpentine17ice
Come now, children, surely that's a bit over the top: "terrorize and intimidate"? Maybe you forgot to read the Wiki-warning: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.". (Notice especially that adverb, mercilessly.) I think your teachers would take points off this if it were an essay.
In any case, my point remains: without disparaging high school students (yes, I was once one), they really ought to be reading, not writing, their encyclopedias and textbooks. And apparently, even "Lady Nimue" seems to agree with me. So, chill. (Or don't kids say that anymore?) +ILike2BeAnonymous 02:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, my dear friend, what made you think that I agreed with you and that all my friends are children? Besides, this is not an essay. And where does that wiki-warning apply here? I'm sorry - I do not get what you mean. And please, Nimue. "Lady Nimue" makes me feel so old. Lady Nimue of the Lake 07:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

And what makes you think I'm a CHILD??? I'm seventeen (hey, that's my favourite number!), almost an adult! And Lady Nimue, the whole reason that you chose this name, is because you wanted to feel old! *thumps head while crickets chirp* And NO, we do NOT say "chill"... that is soooo last year. Besides, the name ILike2BeAnonymous is such a strange, odd, peculiar, anomalous name. And people usually think that the best time of a person's life is when they're children. semper fidelis --Serpentine17ice 08:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, "anomalous": good word, and I give you credit for using it. But how does it apply to my moniker? How is it anomalous? (The definition is "deviating from or inconsistent with the common order, form, or rule; irregular; abnormal".) What do you think is the common order or "normal" here? Just curious. +ILike2BeAnonymous 17:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
My dear, you mistake me again! I do not wish to feel any older when I am already sixteen! Getting old is such a ... long process, dear. Lady Nimue of the Lake 09:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Child? Well, lessee: can't vote, can't drink, barely can drive (depending, of course, on your local laws); probably living w/your parents. Don't get me wrong: I'm strongly in favor of children's rights. I think all secondary and higher education schools ought to have student reps on the governing board with voting rights, since they're usually the victims of decisions made by such boards. That's different from allowing children to write their textbooks. There are good reasons why this has traditionally been a role given to old farts: they know more about the subject (there are things called "expertise" and "wisdom" in the world, like it or not). +ILike2BeAnonymous 17:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, technically, nobody actually writes their own words into wikipedia. It's usually just chunks of information gathered from other sites (unless you're Lady Nimue or perhaps you). And who wants to drink, knowing that they would probably end up drunk? Why not just a cup of nice herbal tea? By the way, your grammar is incorrect. It's 'can barely drive' NOT 'barely can drive'. semper fidelis User: serpentine17ice

The New Science Focusbook printed in Australia for Year 8 (I know because my sister is studying it and so we have a copy) completely explains things the wrong way. My science teacher already is explaining things the wrong way, thinking that information for science that was last updated fifty years ago is still right. As time progresses in the world, older information becomes incorrect. That is something that even 'old farts' know. As for writing our own textbook, I know that I myself have already written several pages of legible and understandable notes on physics and quantum mechanics. Believe me, even my friends agree that my notes are more easily understood than the words of my science teacher. In trigonometry, it is painfully easy, but my teacher makes it sound hard. For english, the syllabus is faulty. For history, the syllabus only focuses on extreme ancient history. Even in the Australian Music Examination Board, there is something wrong with the syllabus of Grade Eight violin exam pieces. For Musicianship, some things are explained wrongly - the 'old fart' there is already long dead and she was eighty-ninety when she wrote it. The thing about the tonic, super-tonic...etc - all the way up to where the sub-mediant is just random is wrong. If you read another textbook called the 'Music Encyclopaedia', you will find that that theory is actually a load of rubbish. Even an examiner on the AMEB is wrong in how to play Bach style! So if you actually think about it, sometimes young people contributing in writing a textbook or encyclopaedia may not be such a bad thing. We contribute greatly in the way of young people with more updated information and more understanding gained by learning from other people's opinions, mistakes and faults. If I hadn't taken a look at the new syllabus for Grade 8 violin, AMEB, I would not have known of all these faults. How could the AMEB have not included any baroque, classical or romantic songs? I find it hard to believe that modern songs would better educate kids who are learning. It is just so stupid. However, if some young people were to represent the greater faction of students out there who are railing at this, it might have been so much simpler and I wouldn't have sent a letter of complaint on behalf of forty-three pupils either! Lady Nimue of the Lake 09:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow. I wrote so much! I'm sorry - I'm not writing so much just to point out things to you (ILike2BeAnonymous), I'm just writing to express my feelings. Lady Nimue of the Lake 09:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)