Talk:Park Slope, Brooklyn

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It is so pathetic this article has so little info compared to the one on Williamsburg.

Park Slope hipsters! Get to work!

Why are there so few photos of Park Slope on the Web? And the ones there are are old and unatrractive. This is one of the most beautiful urban neighborhoods in the world, and almost nothing!

Contents

[edit] Park Slope and Urban sprawl

I would hardly call Brooklyn or Park Slope an example of urban sprawl. Please read the article on that topic to get a better sense of what is meant by urban sprawl. Darkcore 22:13, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
See your talk page. --Howrealisreal 00:38, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I replaced the urban sprawl characterization of turn-of-the-twentieth century development (which implies car-reliant development) with that of the streetcar suburb. I think this may be more historically accurate.--Pharos 01:41, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I am satisfied with this compromise. Thanks guys. --Howrealisreal 01:48, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It's funny; actually I changed this independently of Darkcore's comment, which I noticed afterwards. On another point, I'm not sure I agree with the removal from Category:Gay villages. This has been a major aspect of the neighborhood's development in recent years.--Pharos 01:51, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah that is true. Along with the influx of immigrants during the late 70s and 1980s, Park Slope is another classic example of how gays and lesbians have initiated gentification in neighborhoods. I am looking to find a good source that deals with this information before I add it to the Park Slope history section. Good point Pharos. --Howrealisreal 01:56, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think a distinction needs to be made between a gay village and a neighborhood that may be home to gays and lesbians. The Queer community tends to be heavily urbanized. Also, the Queer community, particularly gay men, have, along with artists, played significant roles in gentrifying many urban neighborhoods in many, many cities. However, a gay village is a neighborhood with a distinct "gay identity" that, to me, does not really exist in Park Slope. Yes, gays and lesbians live there (and they live in Fort Greene, Astoria, Bed-Stuy, Williamsburg, etc., etc.) but I don't think the definition of "gay village" is particularly warranted for any of those neighborhoods. Nor do I think it is really appropriate for Park Slope. Darkcore 06:09, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I'm fairly new to the term "gay village", so it may not be appropriate for this article. But, I do think Park Slope's association with the gay and lesbian community, specifically how they helped shape and evolve the neighborhood before the boom in property value of the 1990s, is more well-known and more significant compared to your other examples of Fort Green, Astoria, Bed-Stuy, etc... I've grown up in this area for almost 22 years now, and I do believe that there is a distinct "gay identity" in Park Slope, although it has been hindered more recently due to the area becoming fashionable to families and young professionals (hipsters, yuppies, whatever you want to call them). I know it is not the end-all/be-all, but Park Slope still hosts many gay and lesbian parades and events that cater to the queer community in and beyond its boundaries. --Howrealisreal 19:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Removed gay village category. At one point it might be appropriate but currently it probably doesn't. --Howrealisreal 16:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Progress

Congatulations on getting this quite beyond stub status; of course, it could still be expanded, particularly with non-historical info.--Pharos 18:35, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll continue to work on this here and there as I come across more information. I really appreciate the help and comments from all the on-lookers out there. --Howrealisreal 21:31, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] dyke slope

no mention of lesbians and the baby boom at all....

not true, read the article in full. but expanded on as per request. --Howrealisreal 17:20, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've lived in the slope my whole life. While there are a few lesbians, they are by no means dominant. As well, I have never heard ANYONE call my neighborhood Dyke Slope. Get a grip! —This unsigned comment is by 66.161.74.251 (talk • contribs) .

Well, just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's not true. I have grown up in the Slope for 20-some years, and have heard it described in various contexts that way. (Most recently by a professor at the college I attended.) Urban neighborhoods are complex and dynamic places; there is a lot more that happens in the present and past than meets the eye of one individual. --Howrealisreal 23:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you are missing the point. I am 28 and an active member of the community. I do personally know lesbians. But whether its going out to dinner, or working at the Food Co-op, lesbians don't seem any more common than elsewhere in New York City. There is ONE lesbian bar on 4th Ave. Park Slope IS NOT called Dyke Slope by anyone except perhaps as an insult. You are missing the point. ITs a fiction!!! —This unsigned comment was added by 66.161.74.251 (talk • contribs) .

You might be missing the point here: Please check this google search and find that the usage of the term is verifiable. Note that most of the sites that reference it are from within the gay community (Gay.Com Travel, Woman seeking Woman advertisement in Craigslist, Dyke-TV show about softball...) and the class that I heard the term used at Pace University was my girlfriend's queer studies class (taught by a lesbian who herself lives in the Slope). You are right, Park Slope today is very diverse and lesbians don't normally walk around wearing signs that indicate so. But, you are kidding me if you are trying to deny the Slope's distinct gay identity and participation during its gentrification process. As someone who grew up in the neighborhood I am not insulted, and judging from the adoption of the term by the gay community, neither does many lesbians who have or still do call Park Slope home. Also, please sign your posts by adding ~~~~ after your text. Thank you. --Howrealisreal 15:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I really don't care about the few google searches that result (one of which is this site). If I put in Chelsea or Boys Town (halstead st, Chicago) TONS of hits appear. Not a handful. Gays don't have to wear signs. But there should be more than one drinking establishment that caters to them. The one dike bar on 4th ave is usually pretty dead, as is the one on 5th ave. The point is there IS no gay community. A few lesbians does not a community make. But I'm not denying that lesbians call the neighborhood home. It has been a liberal neighborhood for 30 years. The point is, the term itself, Dyke Slope. I don't like it. I've never heard it. I don't think its appropriate for Wikipedia. And don't tell me what to do. I can type whatever I feel like on this page.
Also, I've never even denied that lesbians are found in the neighborhood. My point is that while they have always been present, perhaps in greater numbers than elsewhere, they have had minimal impact on the neighborhood. They certainly have not been numerous enough to warrant a term like "Dike Slope". The reality is lesbianism is largely an academic phenomenon. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest some professor would make such a claim. But, that one class does not trump a substantial portion of my personal experience over many years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.161.74.251 (talk • contribs) 12:43, April 13, 2006.
First off, please remain civil (I'm glad you didn't keep this edit [1] in place). Second, please create and account and sign your posts. Third, your personal experience is not the measurement of what should and should not be included in WP. --mtz206 17:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I respect your opinion, but it is just that. This is an encyclopedia, not your personal blog. You are absolutely correct that you can write whatever you want on these talk pages, but we have a responsibility to be accurate in the article page. Remember Wikipedia is not censored for any reason, which includes removing content because you find it offensive. Your removed edit stated that you think I am "a delusional, academic lesbian who wishes [I] had a neighborhood of [my] own," and I just have to chuckle at that. In fact, I am a heterosexual male Brooklynite who has grown up in and around the Park Slope neighborhood, although now I live in Sunset Park. Just like many of the other people (including many of the lesbian pioneers) who used to call the Slope home, I can no longer afford to live there. I have no knowledge of the lesbian bar scene since I am not a lesbian, but that is not the end-all-be-all criteria for a lesbian community. You have to understand that there is too much evidence (not personal opinion) that indicates "Dyke Slope" to be a valid term to describe the historic relevance of lesbians in the neighborhood. A New York Times article explains how lesbains had an important role in the first gentrifcation process of the Slope, and the article even references the term "'Dyke Slope', as [the neighborhood] is affectionately called by many lesbians..." In order to be accurate and objective, sometimes we have to put our own feelings aside and advocate sides that don't always reflect our personal experiences. --Howrealisreal 19:56, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I am gonig to have to agree with the anonymous poster. I too grew up in Park Slope and must weigh in. While there are plenty of gay people in the neighborhood they do not make up a significant portion for particular mention. Also the neighborhood which I grew up in for over 24 years has never been called Dyke Slope by anyone I know either. I would like to call into question your usage of this phrase. Perhaps you are using it because your circle of friends do and its causing a misjudgement into how wide spread it is? Maybe the gay community calls it that, but even the gay people I know in Park Slope have never used the term. If it is particulary gay people then can you please state that. I will wait 3 days for a counter arguement or more solid factual standing then some google links. Thank You --Zer0faults 12:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

That is fair enough. I have no problem with attributing the phrase to the people who use it the most. I agree that I have not heard the phrase until more recently. It was just quite alarming to me when the anon had decided that the phrase was incorrect and should be omitted from the article, without taking into consideration anything else. This is a good compromise. --Howrealisreal 13:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to throw out there that I had heard the term "dyke slope" in various contexts before I moved to NYC; my partner and I now have a "welcome to south dyke slope" sign in the front room of our apartment. It may be a term specific to the twentysomething queer community, but within that context it is widely used. Decafdyke 14:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi all, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Have lived in the slope since 1996. I'm a straight female. The one and only time I've ever heard PS referred to as Dyke Slope was from a lesbian friend from out of state. While this points to the fact that SOMEBODY is referring to PS as Dyke Slope, I personally have friends (straight and gay)all over Brooklyn and in Manhattan who have never used that term around me. And when I first heard it I asked people if they had ever heard it and everyone said no, so I thought my out of state friend was misinformed. For 12 years I've seen a very diverse neighborhood (which is why I like it) with no more stand out of lesbians than anyone else. And that lesbian cafe on 5th ave closed a couple of years ago. I'd say the term exists, but only for people who want to push labels.24.90.11.67 (talk) 03:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] movies

at least part of the movie "Smoke" was filmed in the Slope and it seems that the smoke shop could easily be a 5th Ave, 7th Ave or Flatbush Ave shop.

granted, everything i see reminds me of the Slope, but "Dog Day Afternoon" looks pretty Slope-ish, too.

Where do you think these belong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.203.35.14 (talk • contribs)

Actually, all three of those movies are really in the Windsor Terrace area, which is sometimes branded "South Park Slope" by real estate companies trying to raise the property value and rents. I know this, because I grew up in Windsor Terrace for the past 21-or-so years of my life. Perhaps, you may want to move the section to that article. --Howrealisreal 00:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I moved it for you. --Howrealisreal 16:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

Is there a need for 5 photos of brownstones? A max of two would seem to be sufficient, unless they happen to be of something particularly noteworthy. --mtz206 23:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gentrification Cons

This article only seems to list the positive effects gentrification has had on Park Slope, making it seems a little POV from the view of those moving into the neighborhood during the gentrification. I would like to add the following, please give feedback, will wait for 3 or so days before adding to article.

"The negative impacts however of this gentrification is the displacement of the immigrant population that settled in the 1980s. As yuppies began to move into Park Slope the rising rents have made it difficult for low income residents to stay. It is not uncommon to find those same early immigrants who moved into the neighborhood living adjacent to renters paying two to three times the rent.
The commercial impacts of the gentrification can also be seen along the popular 5th Avenue stretch, where numerous banks and bars have replaced neighborhood staples such as the Salvation Army and once popular dollar store's. While gentrification and the ensuing rush of brand name stores normally signal a driving down of prices, in some industries such as food services, prices have gone up. The establishing of base prices by coporate businesses have led to smaller establishments such as the local convenience store to raise their prices, yet still maintain them under the base."

They arent necessarily in order, feel free to give feedback, pros cons etc --Zer0faults 20:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I say be bold and go for it. I definitely agree with the nature of your proposed contribution, and if you feel it balances the appearance of the antithesis then by all means it is important to add. --Howrealisreal 13:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Winter photos

I uploaded this picture I took of Park Slope. Would you like me to find a place for it in the article?  — Anna Kucsma

Sure.. go for it. --Howrealisreal 15:57, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Done!  — Anna Kucsma 14:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Since you added this winter shot, I deleted another of brownstones with snow in front. One winter shot is sufficient. --mtz206 (talk) 14:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Close access" paragraph

The third paragraph includes, among other things, a list of institutions to which Park Slope provides "close access." One of these institutions is the Brooklyn Public Library. While the library's Central Branch is indeed on the edge of the neighborhood, the sentence as written suggests that the system as a whole is within walking distance. Of course, it ain't. Could someone re-write it? (I'm feeling a little mentally flustered right now, or I'd do it myself...)  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 01:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Done! --Ec- 18:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
And nicely, too! Thanks for taking care of it.  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 20:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Southern border

I just reverted an anonymous edit that changed the southern border of Park Slope to the Prospect Expressway rather than 15th Street. I am not completely opposed to this, but I think the issue deserves some discussion and consensus before a change is made. I have lived in Park Slope for almost 14 years, and always considered 15th street (from the traffic circle at the edge of Prospect Park cutting West) the border. Perhaps this has expanded in recent years - the highway is a more obvious deliminater. Thoughts? --Ec- 23:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I always thought of 15th Street as the border, too. Beyond that is Windsor Terrace (I think).  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 20:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I was born and raised in Windsor Terrace (17th Street to be exact) for 23 years now: 15th Street is absolutely the border of Park Slope. Real estate agencies have been cashing in on the popularity of the Slope by terming Windsor Terrace as "South Slope" for awhile now. I strongly believe that the article should not give in to market-based boundaries. The true borders of the Slope should be defined in the intro of the article, and the "Park Slope sprawl" that is presently going on belongs down below in the history. --Howrealisreal 01:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I am a real estate broker who worked in Windsor Terrace for 3 years and in Park Slope for 1. I've never heard or seen anyone trying to pawn Windsor Terrace off for the South Slope. I'm not saying it hasn't been done but I have a feeling if it has, it's rare. I feel if it was more commonly done, I would have heard it by now.64.12.117.11 14:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another Border

I was confused about Brooklyn Botanical Gardens and Brooklyn museum, the description on the page would exclude these as they are outside the border the article talks about. As long as I have lived in Park Slope, over 30 years now, I have yet to see anyone actually call this area Park Slope either. These two institutions are actually in Prospect Heights. --NuclearUmpf 17:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

NM, I see they are not attributing it to the neighborhood just banking off of its distance. --NuclearUmpf 17:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] adding Category:Places impacted by urban decay

I think that this should be added becuase there *was* decay in Park Slope at one time. If you look at the things in the category they are not all places that are ina state of decay but rather places that suffered it at one time.

futurebird 05:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ya'know, I tend to think that this category is kinda meaningless. What urban neighborhoods have never suffered a little decay? (See also: Category_talk:Places impacted by urban decay)  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 01:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I think that is a great question, there are places that have not suffered from blight, maybe not in NYC (though the upper east side comes to mind...) but in the country. What do all of those places have in common... I think that's important question to ask when thinking about Urban Decay. The remarkable recovery of Park Slope makes the fact that it was once a victim of urban decay all the more remarkable (and notable). --futurebird 04:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Residents' Userbox

I've created a userbox, User:AnnaKucsma/Boxes/Park Slope. Comments welcome. Users, too.  — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 17:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] yuppies and hipsters

i think the author of this article meant to say that hipsters go to williamsburg and greenpoint, and yuppies go to park slope -- not that hipsters go to w-burg, and yuppies to the slope and greenpoint. but i'm not going to change it since it is silly, unsubstantiated, and a gross over-generalization. Nickhanlon 15:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)