Talk:Parasaurolophus

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Contents

[edit] Redundancy

The line "Fossils of Parasaurolophus have been found across North America, as well as in Canada, where a complete skeleton was found." seems to indicate that Canada is not in North America. I'm not sure if the person who wrote that meant Northern United States and Canada, but as it stands it is just redundant. I'll try to change it.

You can hear what this dinosaur may have looked like here: http://museums.state.nm.us/nmmnh/sci_parasaur.html

But I don't know how to wikify the information. :)

[edit] Image taxobox

Old Parasaurolophus
Old Parasaurolophus
Suggestion new Parasaurolophus
Suggestion new Parasaurolophus


Is it ok if I would replace the image in the taxobox by a new one? The old sketch has some anatomical inaccuracies, for example the shape and thickness of the tail. Cheers, Tbc2 15:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Go for it. The new one is much better.Dinoguy2 16:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Aww I like the old ones better! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 03:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
  • Wouldn't Parasaurolophus have had hoof-like nails? Funkynusayri (talk) 06:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Apparently not, according to Greg Paul; the three load-bearing fingers were united in a single fleshy unit. J. Spencer (talk) 06:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, ok, in any case, aren't the hands of both the illustrations we have for Parasaurolophus and Lambeosaurus wrong then? Funkynusayri (talk) 06:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
It looks like it, although the lambeo illustrations would be easier to fix than the Parasaurolophus (erasing the lines between fingers [and adding the free outer finger to the taxobox image] versus a complete redo of the hand). J. Spencer (talk) 07:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • It was a bit tough, but I tried fixing the Parasaurolophus' hands into hooves based on the same model skeleton I guess tbc used[1], does it look right? Funkynusayri (talk) 18:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Looks good to me. J. Spencer (talk) 21:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus

The photograph in the artical shows a parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus and calls it a female p. Walkeri Has it been proven that parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus is acually a female. If so maybe it could be mentionted in the artical. thanks Steveoc 86 12:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems this idea has been published and should be discussed in the text, though I can't find a cite. It's not open and shut, however, so it's probably best to change the caption. Dinoguy2 15:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
thanks, i found this paper 'Dodson, P., 1975, Taxonomic implications of relative growth in lambeosaurine hadrosaurs. Systematic Zoology v. 24, p. 37-54.' I can only find an extract but apparently it talks about parasaurolophus. The abstract doesn't mention parasaurolphus only Lambeosaurus and corythosaurus. Steveoc 86 17:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The article can be found under the Nov. 22 readings at this site. If that's not working, I can send it by email. J. Spencer 03:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the link, it doesn't talk about parasaurolophus sadly. Maybe the corythosaurus artical could talk about this. Pad out the artical a bit. The Lambeosaurus artical talks about this but doesn't have a reference, maybe a refernce to the paper could be put in. ThanksSteveoc 86 09:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

I came to this article in the forlorn hope that it would give some clue about pronunciation. I've heard two different stabs at it: ˌpærəsəˈrɑləfəs and ˌpærəˌsɔrəˈlofəs, that is, either a pair of dactyls or three trochees. (I've also heard, once, a variant of the trochaic pronunciation that put primary stress on "saur".) Is there any authority to appeal to here? ACW 19:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure. A Google search on "Parasaurolophus"+"pronounced" appears to give various different pronunciations, none of which appear to be in IPA (which I don't know anyway). This site has a wav file. Lambert (1993) offers "par-a-SORE-a-LOAF-us", and that's the pronunciation I've been using ever since. Firsfron of Ronchester 22:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
There are no standard pronunciations for dinosaur names, unfortunately. I know many people who try to stick to the pronunciation of the root words from Greek, Latin, whatever, though these usually result in... unorthodox pronunciations, like "SOUR-oos" for saurus. Others follow pronunciation by the original author, if available. But I've seen both "para-SORE-a-LOAF-us" and "para-saur-OLOPH-us" in equal proportion. I've laways used the later. I remember Ostrom had a particularly odd sounding pronunciation of Deinonychus, but I can't remember what it was (I used to say "dein-o-NIK-us", but switched to "dein-ON-ick-us" at some point for a reason I forget...). Dinoguy2 01:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Back when I went through my dinosaur phase, I always said it pah-ruh-sore-oh-luh-phus. Just a note. PS: Parasaurolophus are sweet.
Gawd - agree there is no correct way to pronunciate them as they are all miles off ancient greek and latin anyway (though my ability at those is very rusty indeed). I always said "Parasor-OL-ofus", and "DeiNONikus"....cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 03:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Errors?

This sentence " In the verterbrate there was a cut where the horn would hit the back, this prevented the horn from hitting the back." not only makes it sound like some parasaurolophi are not vertebrates, but makes a redundancy saying that "where the horn hits the back it doesn't hit the back" and .. also, what kind of cut? I don't see a cut either in the horn or the spine. Oh, and how exactly is Ducky "identified as a parasaurolophus" when they just call them duckbills? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 03:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

isn't that cut in the spine a pathological condition, both GSP's and Scott Hartmans skeletal drawing don't show this. Hartman's even staits that he has corrected it.Steveoc 86 09:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit war

Hello I am pianoloverizme. I want to ask you if you will please allow me to have a theroy label in you artical because it is one just like creation is a theroy not one can be proven scientifically. And sorry for the "editing war" Pianoloverizme 01:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Pianoloverizme,
Thank you for writing here instead of reverting to your version of the article. "Theory" is spelled with the O before the R. We also do not add multiple exclamation marks in Wikipedia articles, as they do not help present material in an encyclopedic tone. I do also recommend that you run a spell checker on your contributions before submitting them. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and all submissions should be properly spelled, to the best of each editor's ability. Firsfron of Ronchester 01:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, I will keep that in mind next time. I am new to this Wikipedia thing. Pianoloverizme 23:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Pianoloverizme. I don't quite understand the rationale behind your request: are you saying that radiometric dating is the same kind of theory that creation science is, and that neither can be proven scientifically? Also, why Parasaurolophus? J. Spencer 01:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes. They be proven by scientific fact. You say that radiometric dating is all at the same rate. But how in the world do you know that? Have you watched a rock since it was created and had a control? You have to have a control to make it scientific. You don't know if the "year" you have now could be a day or a week there is no scientific proof. And yes I do say the Creation has no scientific fact. You must have faith. But you must also have faith in evolution and raiometric dating. You didn't see it and you have no control. FAITH! Pianoloverizme 23:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I must agree that it is puzzling that this would be brought up here, at the Parasaurolophus article. I haven't seen any papers where the age of (specifically) Parasaurolophus is in dispute. Wikipedia's policy is that any material that is challenged r likely to be challenged needs a citation from a reliable source. WikiProject Dinosaurs guidelines state that for material to be included, it should come from a reputable source, preferrably a peer-reviewed journal or book. Do you have a citation, Pianoloverizme, for an assertion that the age of the genus Parasaurolophus is in dispute? It would need to be mentioned specifically by name to be included in this article, because this article is about Parasaurolophus. The citation would also preferrably be from a peer-reviewed journal or book. If the citation is not specifically about this dinosaur, I would recommend placing it in the article the source covers. Does this help? Firsfron of Ronchester 02:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Well I was looking up Parasaurolophus from different sources and comparing information when I found a phrase that offended me and my beliefs. I'm sure other people have been offended as well. To make the article more useful for everyone you could show both sides. Thank you. Pianoloverizme 22:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how beliefs (which are concepts) can be "offended" (which is an emotion felt only by animate objects), but if you were offended by the claims of this article, you can fix that by providing us with a reliable source which states that the age of (specifically) Parasaurolophus is in dispute. Post a link here to the peer-reviewed journal which gives a different age for Parasaurolophus, so that we can add it somewhere into the article. Everything added to Wikipedia should have a source to back up the claim. Happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 23:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Well every thing in Wikipedia should be neutral to opinion or pov I read in the second benchmark or what ever it was that you sent me. Here you are showing one side. If you have to say that some believe that it could be only 6,000 years old Pianoloverizme 00:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

"Offending beliefs" is a really bad reason to change an article. Just think about it for a second; there are over six billion people in the world, with an equal number of points of view. These articles are intended to be compilations of reliable material, not catalogs of beliefs or faith positions. Therefore, only obviously true information (like size and shape), and information that has been tested (like what the closest known relatives of Parasaurolophus are, what likely functions of its crest were, and the approximate age of the rocks that it was buried in), with proper citations where necessary, should be included. The age is quite testable; I can use argon-argon dates from the numerous bentonite layers in the Dinosaur Park Formation, and if I want to cross-check, I can look for granitic intrusions in the nearby area that occurred at about the same time based on the Law of Superposition and Principle of cross-cutting relationships, and extract zircons from them for uranium-lead methods (of which there are two). Half-lives are well-established as exponential and constant (in that the decay constant of a particular isotope does not change) from decades of work in nuclear physics (and those nuclear physicists must be doing something right given the presence of functioning nuclear powerplants, submarines, space probes, and weapons), and so one does not need to observe for millions of years to get an accurate number.
Additionally, "show both sides" is a misnomer, as there are not two sides, but science, which relies on observation and testing questions, and many different religiously-inspired groups, which rely on faith and strict adherence. There are YECs of various stripes versus OECs of various stripes versus Islamic creationists versus groups of believers from every other religion who find it important that the creation stories from their religion be taken as absolute literal truth. J. Spencer 00:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General comments not directed at anyone in particular

(split from above) Frankly, I don't see why it should be an issue, because a) faith positions are not testable in a scientific way; and b) whether or not Parasaurolophus existed 74 million years ago, last week, or not at all shouldn't be a primary concern of a system of worship and ethics. Literalism turns people into Pharisees, overly concerned about strict adherence to minutae and not to actually being a good, moral person. It seems to me that God would be more pleased with churches that helped the sick and poor, spread love, and acted by example, rather than those that frittered away money and influence on attempting to force their views on biology and geology into the public schools. I know that I respect people that do the right thing, as opposed to "party loyalists" who cannot think for themselves and can only act as they've been instructed. J. Spencer 00:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

So I should just sit here while you tell everyone that the Parasaurlolphus and all of the other dinosaurs exsisted blah blah years ago? Everyday people are brain washed into thinking that this is true. when you were little did you learn that dinos were that old? Yes. I learned it and believed it. Now I know the truth. I'm not just fighting the age of a parasaurolophus, but right now maybe I can everybody from being brain washed to maybe opening their minds a little. It's good that you guys are trying to find out the truth but it's right in front of you. God made the earth. I mean look around, you think this all came by accident? Every thing is complex I know that a series of mutations wouln't do that. If you would just look around and open your eyes maybe you would see that maybe just maybe evolution isn't true.
And back to the FACTS!You cheak the age by testing rock that you don't know for sure is right. But then you cross cheak by testing another rock? That's like testing a mathimatical problem by makeing a completly different problem. The blind leading the Blind...
Why should I get the same answers from different rocks and different isotopes unless a) they're both telling the truth or b) God is being a jerk (or permitting Satan to be a jerk, which is about the same thing)? J. Spencer 03:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Or c) maybe you have your dating system wrong? Instead of 582263596557 Million years it could be only a couple thousand. He gave us free will so do really think he's a jerk? I can clearly tell you have no trust in God because you would be offended by what you said if you had any. Really go to church once and a while. Pianoloverizme 04:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? Ar-Ar and the two U-Pb systems are different systems, and should not provide the same results unless either a) or b) holds. Your statement about offense makes no sense on a logical or grammatical level, and I don't see why it's so important for a anybody that dinosaurs have to be ~6000 years old. Last time I checked, the Bible was not a biology textbook, but an ethical/moral compendium (with a lot of genealogical/historical information that most people skim through) that does a lot of instruction through stories that include figurative language, such as parables, so a literal interpretation sees the trees but misses the forest. Finally, according to the implications of your position, God has spent a lot of time making the world look a lot older than it really is, then expects people to ignore this. Seems like a jerky thing to do. God not only makes it look old, but in the American West, puts all the apatosaur and stegosaur and allosaur skeletons in the Morrison Formation, then puts the tyrannosaur and triceratops skeletons in the higher Lance Formation. In Alberta, all of the corythosaurs are put below the lambeosaurs. In all of the dinosaur-bearing formations, no mammals larger than a cat are present; in the mammal formations, all of which are above the dinosaur formations, no dinosaurs are seen. God's putting an awful lot of effort into this. I'd go so far as to say that it looks like either the scientists are right and the rocks are millions of years old, and God is not paying much attention to millions of years of giant reptiles followed by millions of years of unintelligent large mammals, or God is playing with humanity for another of those mysterious unfathomable reasons, and that suggestion is offensive to me. J. Spencer 04:38, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Don't you get it? The heaviest dinosaurs ended up in the middle after Steve Carell's flood, while all the small primitive animals went straight to the bottom. Human fossils all floated to the top, because they had invented swimmies. It's simple physics. ;) Dinoguy2 08:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Religious people can be hypocritical, they complain about scientific theory and fact saying ‘how can we Know what its fact?’ and yet there are arrogant enough to blindly believe in a fictional book that’s full of distorted history and mythology. It is therefore no more significant or more truthful than Lord of the Rings. How can they believe in one specific religion when there are thousands? How do they know that what some tribe believes about the rain god or the giant fish that regurgitated them haven’t got it write? They might think the idea of a giant dog flicking off his fleas which became humans is ridiculous but they believe it just as much as a large modern religeon does. Just because creationists are often members of the largest religion in the world doesn’t automatically mean they are correct. How can they say that what the Romans and Egyptians believed is mythology. We are not gods special children. They often reply with a quote from the bible saying ’Well Joe Bloggs said in chapter 3 that ….’ I do not take the bible seriously.Steveoc 86 08:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's refrain from making personal attacks, everyone. Remember that even when discussions become heated, there's no reason to resort to incivility. Please remain calm and do not lash out at other editors. Firsfron of Ronchester 09:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


OK, what the creationist crowd doesn't seem to realize is that radioactive decay releases ENERGY. A lot of it, when you add up all those molecules. That energy is what keeps our mantle molten, powering plate tectonics. It's why there is magma inside of volcanoes. And if all the heat scientists say has been released by radioactive decay over the last 4.5 billion years had instead been released in only 6000 years, then none of us would be here to argue about it right now because Earth would be a ball of MOLTEN LAVA. Okay? Get over it. Sheep81 10:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey look sorry J. for personally attacking your beliefs of this creation evolution thing and God. Your religon is between you and God, not me. Here I'll make you a deal, You don't say God is being a jerk or any of those things, and I won't say anything about your beliefs. Pianoloverizme 04:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm willing to let theological differences be. J. Spencer 04:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Theologyguy 02:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)This is my first contribution to Wikipedia so I'm not quite sure how this works. There is a claim on this page that some believe that parasaurolophus might have used his crest to mix chemicals similar to the bombardier beetle. There is a link that says this needs verification. There is a book written by Dr. Duane Gish called Italic textDinosaurs by DesignItalic text which posits this as a possible use. It was published by Master Books (Green Forest, AR) in 1992. The 14th printing (2004) has this information on page 82. Hope this helps.

That far back? It's good to have a ref for where that comes from, as unlikely a use at it would appear to be, particularly as its respiration is routed through the hollow tubes that pass through the crest. Bit of an inconvenient place for chemical mixing. J. Spencer 03:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To-Do

I'd be very grateful if someone who knows linguistics would cover "Pah-rah-saur-OL-o-phus" versus "Para-saur-oh-LOPH-us", and if someone would weed out the more trivial trivia in the pop culture section. I'm a bit unclear on how to cite such sections, since I assume to check them you simply watch the film or whatever and say, "gee, yeah, that's a Parasaurolophus. I know they were in the Treehouse of Horror installment where Homer went back in time, but that was a cameo. J. Spencer 03:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Moved these from the article:
I don't see what the point of either sci-fi ref is, given that the Voth connection is a quick hologram and the Star Wars connection is borrowing the shape; neither are Parasaurolophus. I also thought the JP detail was a bit much. Not included but also cut out was something about a zord that I found out joins up to make a super-robot or something, another case of an homage to an image that's a lot more useful on the specific zord's page than here. J. Spencer 01:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


Updated to-do: mostly image issues

  • Pronunciation guide (and comment on the two pronunciation variations)
  • Sourcing of the pop culture section if it ain't there, no sourcing necessary
  • The drawing of the different species' skulls
  • Redlinks
  • Probably want a scale drawing, as those always go over well (we had one)
  • I have some worry over the Sandia image at this point
  • General copyedit by someone other than primary editor J. Spencer 01:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC) updated J. Spencer 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Did I miss this or who is the Walker which walkeri comes from?
From dinosaurnames.net:
p. walkeri (Parks, 1922) - "The specific name is given for Sir (Byron) Edmund Walker, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Royal Ontario Museum." Walker (1848-1924) had urged the establishment of a provincial museum as early as 1888, but it was not until Sir Jame Whitney became premier that funds were voted. Walker was appointed chairman of the board of trustees (1912-1924) and it was largely through his efforts that the Royal Ontario Museum was built and opened in 1914. Later Walker donated his own valuable palaeontological collection and library to the University of Toronto in 1904. He began the collection years before during his youth and continued it as a lifelong hobby. During his career, Walker also became a university senator (in 1893), governor (in 1906), chairman of the University of Toronto board of Governors (in 1910) and chancellor (in 1923). The type skeleton of Parasaurolophus walkeri is still on public display at the Royal Ontario Museum in its dinosaur galleries. [Current status: valid taxon]. J. Spencer 02:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Now here's the trick - how do you ref to soemthing requiring a login?cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
It's in Parks 1922, fortunately. J. Spencer 03:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the Sandia image: I did not add the PD tag. It automatically appears when an editor adds an image that is a work of a U.S. government agency. The WMF does not apparently differentiate Sandia works from those of the rest of the government; if there are concerns, the automatic tagging should be changed at the WMF level. Firsfron of Ronchester 01:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
That's an interesting function. Okay. J. Spencer 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Rest of the pop culture section (in case someone asks for it):
Parasaurolophus, with its distinctive crest, has been used in movies and television shows, although as a nonthreatening herbivore it has rarely been a "star". One exception to this is the character "Ducky" from The Land Before Time series. She is officially identified as a Parasaurolophus,[1] though she more closely resembles its relative Saurolophus. Other, background appearances of this genus include the Rite of Spring sequence of Fantasia, all three Jurassic Park films, Disney's Dinosaur, and Episode 6 of ITV's documentary series Prehistoric Park. It has also been a common component of dinosaur toy lines; toys of this dinosaur have been made for decades by multiple manufacturers, from Louis Marx and Company to MPC, Battat, and the Carnegie collection.[2] J. Spencer 20:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


I've put out messages regarding the drawing and pronunciation, so it looks like all that's left are proofreading and two redlinks (Teresa Maryańska and Halszka Osmólska). J. Spencer 03:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC) updated 21:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Why is this image not here? I found it on the German version while browsing the language links. It's Steveoc's. J. Spencer 04:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Image:Parasaurolophuspic steveoc.jpg? It's on commons, but it can be used here, too. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The Description section still needs work, I think. Some of it is in past tense (was), some of it in present tense (is), some of it is written in subjunctive (would have been). I fixed some of this, but there's more. Trouble is, I'm not sure which you'd prefer. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks like we're doing past tense on other FAs, so I tensed it. J. Spencer 15:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm giving it a final lookover - it's pretty good and I've not found too much and some of my changes are not unequivocal in impoving so feel free to revert. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's ready to roll; what about everyone else? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Let's let it stew over the day, and see how it looks tonight; I don't have time right now. J. Spencer 13:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Fine by me, you have the best handle on the beasty :) cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, pride goes before a fall, and so does summer and whatever I'm carrying, too. Nominated. J. Spencer 02:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] interesting parasaurolophus article

There is a creationist article at http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5180 titled "Was Leviathan a Parasaurolophus" which briefly discusses Gish's apparent suggestion (currently ref 34 in this Wikipedia entry) about the crest apparatus being used for fire-breathing, and which refers to an 1845 newspaper report apparently containing eye-witness accounts of a hadrosaur-like creature. Lambo4000 01:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow and all this time we overlooked the most obvious function of the crest... flamethrower!! Sheep81 01:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Their skulls (and epithelia and other soft tissue) were clearly made of stern material. J. Spencer 02:17, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Hey, and they use Dinoguy's image of P. cyrtocristatus from this article! What an honour... Funkynusayri (talk) 18:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Wonderful. Makes a guy want to rethink CC licensing ;) Dinoguy2 (talk) 04:37, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The "Rejected Hypotheses" section ...

... has a bit of a logical fallacy. "Other hadrosaurids did just fine without (function of crest)." I think it's safe to say that every animal with an 'adaptation' has a relative who doesn't have one and does fine. Obviously selective pressure just isn't that strong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 23:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] did you know

that dinosaurs still live today as birds —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.179.10 (talk) 00:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)