Talk:Paraguay

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An event mentioned in this article is a May 15 selected anniversary

Hopefully some people might be interested and update the History section.

Check this out, please:

http://www.rose-hulmaggɱɱn.edu/~delacova/paraguay/francia.htm

172.188.156.3

Actually, both are correct. Paraguay is the only country with the unique characteristic that its flag is different on both sides- on one side is Vencer o Morir, on the other is Paz y Justicia.

Contents

[edit] Motto

The Spanish Wikipedia says the national motto is "Vencer o Morir" (es:Paraguay), while here it says "Paz y justicia". Which one is correct? -- Jpta 20:46, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It should be "Paz y Justicia" which is written on one side of the flag.

[edit] Paraguay's name

There are two different names. Para-guaí (for the country; apparently "this side of the river") is different from the name of Asunción in Guaraní, which is Para-gua-y (river, from, water) and pronounced differently in Guaraní

  • Are either of those related to the -guay in "Uruguay"? According to that article, "Uruguay" means "River of the Painted Birds" in Guaraní. Are there two words for "river", then?
  • The word "y" (a vowel strictly speaking pronounced as in the "oo" of "good" or perhaps "book") means "water" - but it can also variably mean river, lake, ocean, etc... Guarani words are formed by compounding other words, so "y" could mean river as well as water, but other words with "y" in them could give a stricter definition of "river." "Para" could mean river as well, though etymolgically I don't see it. "Gua" definitely means from. But I know very little of Guarani, so how the etymology works for either "Paraguay" or "Uruguay" I am not sure. It'd be nice to see a source for either claim (p="this side of the river" and u="river of the birds").
Almost there. Y, in this case does mean river. -gua does mean from. Para means sea. The full translation would be water from the sea, or more accurately "water that goes to the sea". I don't know who invented what you put in the article, but it makes no sense. The country Paraguay took it's name from the river. I have no idea of what's pararaguay, but it's certainly not guarani. How can the paraguay river take it's name from parana, when parana is just an affluent from this river? Anyways, the part of the article about the name is complete nonsense. --Mauricio Maluff (talk) 19:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History

Why does this section stress the territorial gains of the Chaco War, and ignore the immense territorial loss suffered during the War of the Triple Alliance (fought between 1865-1870)? This section is poorly written, and contains misinformation. Mariscal8 01:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Historically, the Chaco region has been disputed by Bolivia and Paraguay, and several agreements intended to settle this dispute where signed by both countries decades before the war started. Once these agreements were broken, and war ensued, Paraguay merely reasserted its sovereignty of a territory which was considered legitimately theirs. Therefore claiming that Paraguay added territory at "the expenses of Bolivia" is misleading, and untrue. A more concise description of the Chaco war should be put forth. Feel free to contact me. Mariscal8 01:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map

A controversy has erupted over the choice of map for this article. The two candidates are shown here, along with any others that other Wikipedians may choose to enter. Feel free to make any comments. The lower map may also appear in the corresponding Geography article for this country. Kelisi 16:43, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I support the lower Kelisi map, --SqueakBox 16:55, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

I vote for the upper map: small simple and clear, wiki-style. The lower one is a bit ugly, confused and too big (i tried to shrink it but it renders impossible reading names).

Map of Paraguay Map of Paraguay

[edit] Improvement Drive

South America is currently nominated to be improved on Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. You can support the article with your vote.--Fenice 12:14, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify

Any reason why the wikify template was removed? The article still does not make use of the standard country template. Greenman 09:38, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photo upload request

Aug. 16, 2005. Rumsfeld is in Paraguay to meet with Duarte-Frutos to discuss bilateral military cooperation in the region. Klonimus 21:41, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

The article says that 90% speaks Guaraní, while only 75% speaks Spanish, what seams to me exagerated figures. Any official source? Mariano(t/c) 09:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

According to Paraguay Country Review (CountryWatch Incorporated: 2006), p.67: "Little trace is left of the original Guaraní culture except the language, which is understood by 90 percent of the total population. About 75 percent of all Paraguayans speak Spanish."
Here's a explanation why from Countries of the World (1991) from the Electric Library database:

The Guaraní-speaking Indians of the region were drawn into colonial society principally through high rates of intermarriage and concubinage with Spanish settlers, a process that created a mestizo society within a few generations (see The Young Colony, ch. 1). In the resulting cultural synthesis, the dominant language remained Guaraní, whereas the rest of the dominant social institutions and culture remained Hispanic . . .the 1967 Constitution recognizes Guaraní as a national language.

Sociolinguist Joan Rubin characterized Paraguay as ". . . a Guaraní-speaking nation with a heavy incidence of Spanish-Guaraní bilingualism in which each language tends to fulfill distinct functions." Spanish had been the official language since the sixteenth century, and in the late twentieth century it remained the language of government, education, and religion. Nevertheless, Paraguayans of all classes spoke Guaraní much of the time. Language use varied by social context, however. Guaraní was appropriate in more intimate contexts. Spanish was used in more formal situations; it implied respect toward one of higher status. In families, for example, parents might use Guaraní in speaking to one another and require that their children speak to them in Spanish. The upper echelons were distinguished by their relative fluency and ease in using Spanish. By contrast, most rural Paraguayans were monolingual Guaraní speakers until as late as the 1960s.

Chaco55 09:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

According to my own experience the figures may be true. All Paraguayans I spoke have learned Guarani to some degree (it is a class they have to follow at shool nowadays) and when I left the capitol Asuncion I've met some Paraguayans who actually couldn't speak Spanish.

Paraguayans study both Guarani and Spanish in school, studying Guarani from K- grade 12, along with Spanish. In Asuncion, you will find people who don't speak Guarani well or at all, as they are older and went to school before the educational reform of the 1990s, while the further into the countryside you go, the less likely (older) folks there will speak Spanish.

I wrote my dissertation on Paraguay - and the sources I read reckoned that it was more like 40% of Paraguayans that could speak Spanish and 90% who could speak Guarani - can't remember the source, but I wouldn't doubt the figures cited above--Pysproblem (talk) 19:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] U.S Military controversy?

Why is this segment included in Paraguay's article? Why is it so much more important to state a current news item, and alledged conspiracy theories, than to include more substantial information about this country? Also, the fact that the Paraguayan congress approved the entrance of U.S. troops in 2005 has nothing to do with the confidential memo that was leaked in 2001. I would suggest to completely eliminate this segement, and I will make some changes myself. Feel free to contact me. Mariscal8 01:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COA

What about we change that ugly image (with no source) to either this one or this one? --Ysangkok 21:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead. The first image will look better imo :) . Bruno18 22:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] culture section

what is this section all about? "The nation's upper classes are, typically, only a generation or two from the peasantry." As far as I know, Paraguayans I know, this is completely false. "Social life revolves largely around an extended family of parents, children and blood relations as well as godparents....". This is a bit irrelevant to an encyclopedia, I think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.117.102.125 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

And how can you confirm that these statements are false? Just because you took a straw poll among your Paraguayans friends? Would they, or would you, know of any Paraguayan upper class family that is descendant of the aristocratic colonial families from the 1800's? Sorry dude, all of those were wiped out by Francia, Lopez or they emigrated to Buenos Aires. A significant amount of families, currently considered to be part of the "elite" had very humble origins, a fact many prefer to ignore. Considering the degree of corruption existing in Paraguay, it is not suprising so many rose to such great wealth so fast. To be fair, there have been several "rags to riches" Horatio-style stories in Paraguay, but they are few. And why is it irrelevant to include familial relations in the "Culture" section of Wikipedia? Let's not be ethnocentric: just because they are not relevant to you does not mean they are not material to this article. Mariscal8 01:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The fact that most wealthy upper class families in Paraguay are white and many have German/Italian/etc last names proves that most are descendants of European families. If there was a high degree of mobility between classes, a bigger part of the mestizo population would be of upper class. And I haven't seen a single wikipedia entry with familial relations in the "Culture" section. For example, this is what the Argentinian page has under Culture: 10.1 Literature 10.2 Film and theater 10.3 Painting and sculpture 10.4 Food and drink 10.5 Sports 10.6 Music 10.7 Religion 10.8 Language 10.9 Education 10.10 Holidays. This is what the United States Culture section has: 9.1 Cuisine 9.2 Visual arts 9.3 Music 9.4 Cinema 9.5 Sports. Tereré should be included, maybe chipa as well, but I would definitely get rid of the family section.

Why does it talk about curling being one of Paraguay's national sports? Curling is unknown in Paraguay, unless things have dramatically changed in the last couple of years since I've been there. The only national sport is soccer. And some of the richer people play tennis or golf. Maybe one of those is meant instead of curling (although neither are national sports). In the same vein, Paraguay doesn't market curling shoes. Again maybe a different sport is meant here. Note that this information does not appear in the Spanish section. Nathan zac 17:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Nathan: Of course curling is not one of Paraguay's national sports. That edit was obviously added, tongue in cheek, by someone who wanted to prove how long a wildly erroneous fact could survive intact in a wikipedia entry. Happily, it didnt last for long, but I was VERY vexed when I saw the edit. What's next? Bobsledding? This is why I think this article should be protected from vandalism. Mariscal8

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on South America at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#South America whose scope would include Paraguay. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What does "meditereanity" mean?

It's in the Economy section, in the sentence "Due to its meditereanity, Paraguay's economy is very dependent on Brazil and Argentina". The only match for this word I can find on Google is in the article itself or copies of it at other web sites. There is no match in online dictionaries that I can find.

GreatGreenArkleseizure 17:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Mediterrean means Inbetween land (medi = between, terra=land). Meditereanity sounds nevertheless like hell. Given the fact that the country is land locked... might be a better option. --Mariano(t/c) 12:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

This is my mistake, and I'll own up to it. I mistranslated the word "mediterraneo" which in spanish means landlocked. I'll fix it if its not fixed already. Mariscal8

[edit] Latin cultures

Hello everyone! You may want to go to Latin cultures an participate in the article and discussion. There are a lot of disputed statements... The Ogre 12:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "meditereanity"?

What does this word mean? Brian Pearson 03:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need model to improve page.

We need to improve this page. Can any one suggest a model page? Mariscal8 (talk) 21:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Paraguayan Culture

There are certain facts about the Paraguayan culture that will take some time to source. Unfortunately, most of the most in-depth and verifiable sources on Paraguayan culture and society are not readily available on the internet. In the meantime, I think its a disrespect to remove certain statements from this page, even if they are not correctly cited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariscal8 (talk • contribs) 04:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't doubt its authenticity but it is unsourced and reads as original research. It also doesn't look appropriate on the main page, it should be incorporated to its main page (Culture of Paraguay). As for improving this article, I've taken an interest to it so i will help out. For the culture section, i think the best thing to do is to summarize relevant info (such as music, literature, ect; as i did to the Nicaragua article, see here). -- LaNicoya  •Talk•  07:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, some of it might original research, but most of it is plain common sense for anyone who has studied and lived in Paraguay. There is a reason it has sustained its place for over years, through countless editors: it is the fruit of the collective knowledge of all Paraguayans. Unfortunately Paraguay does not have any readily available internet citations, so until I can lay my hands on the physical book itself (which is located at the CCPA library in downtown Asuncion), I won't be able to provide a citation. I appreciate your efforts in improving the page, I've been working on the page for some time, but I really feel it would be inappropiate to model Paraguay's page after that of any particular country. It is unique in its own way. Now, if you can point me to some widely held and accepted wiki-standard, that most country pages subscribe to, then I would gladly work to approximate that standard. Mariscal8 (talk) 06:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Mariscal 8 deleted this text:

Other non-Catholic, non-Protestant Christian religious groups have a significant presence in Paraguay, such as Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, among others. The latter group (LDS, Mormon), for example, claims more than 66,000 members in Paraguay.[1]

describing it as propaganda - I think there is some value both in his/her point and in the text deleted - Religion in Paraguay should include religions other than Catholicism - There is certainly a Jewish community and synagogue in Asuncion, I assume that there is a Muslim community (in Ciudad del Este at least - there definitely is in Foz), What religion is common among the Korean community? The Mennonites are mentioned, the indigenous religions should also be discussed. However, the growth of movements such as the Mormons and the Seventh-day Adventists (particularly at the expense of the Catholic church) is a feature in the region - it is certainly prominent in Brazil, I've personally seen a growing presence in poorer areas of Argentina, such as Formosa (and there is also growth in areas such as Córdoba). While I'm certainly no convert, I'm not convinced that the deleted paragraph is either propaganda or irrelevant - anyone out there knowledgeable enough to contribute? I'll try and do some research if I get a chance.--Pysproblem (talk) 09:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I found the results of the 2002 census here: http://www.dgeec.gov.py/ - that has a huge table of the different religions, but would need it's own page..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pysproblem (talk • contribs) 11:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Have now created fore-mentioned page at Religion in Paraguay - It just has a table created from 1992 and 2002 censuses. I have found some further info through research and will add later to flesh out page--Pysproblem (talk) 11:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)