User talk:Papayoung

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[edit] Kennebec

Good map of the Kennebec. I think the East Outlet from Moosehead is highlighted but not the West. ThanksKAM 14:05, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback and help, KAM. I'm not at all familiar with the top of the river (grew up at the opposite end), and could not find a definitive source; some maps showed it as connecting Moosehead Lake and Indian Pond through just the one outlet, some showed both. If you can confirm that they're both technically part of the Kennebec, I'll add the other outlet to the map. —Papayoung 15:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I checked the topo... now I am not sure. It may be more correct the way it is. The topo seems to show that the East Outlet is the Kennebec. KAM 22:16, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Greeting again Papayong. Take a look at this topo. I think it has East Outlet labled "Kennebec River East Outlet" and the West Outlet labled "Kennebec R. West Outlet". [1] KAM 23:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Chinese Provinces

Hi, Papayoung. Actually, I cannot guarantee the border lines in the Tibetan Plateau map is very accurate. How I drew the boundary lines was that I found a map showing the boundaries between the Chinese provinces, and then copy the "frame" (i.e. only the boundary lines) onto the relief map - with some resizing.

- Alanmak 00:34, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hoping to put the province boundaries into Image:Yangtze_River_Map.png, but would not do so unless I could be very accurate. I think the map works without them though, so it's fine. I appreciate your quick response. —Papayoung 03:05, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Overuse of Chinese characters

You've asked me at a bad time. Today was the day I resolved to tear myself away from Wikipedia so that I could concentrate on work (so that I can take leave on time!)

However, my quick answer is:

I am probably as guilty as any of inserting too much Chinese into articles so I appreciate your clarion call!

  • The original rationale, I think, was that it facilitated research. Without the characters, it is almost impossible to check Chinese sources -- you would have to blindly guess what the characters were.
  • The rationale is sound enough, but the execution leaves something to be desired. I agree that things are getting out of hand.
  • The idea that as much as possible should be put in the Template boxes is quite sensible and I agree with it. Using a Chinese Template box will definitely help remove clutter from the beginning of the article.

I've looked at a couple of articles that I've been involved with in the past (Giant Panda and Li Bai), and I notice that someone has cleaned them up. Chinese names for Giant Panda are discussed in a section of their own, so all the Chinese names have disappeared from the top of the article. In the case of Li Bai, the Chinese names are in the Chinese Template box, so someone has simply removed them from the English text. The result is much cleaner!

What about stuff in the body of the article (although perhaps this is less of a problem)? One answer might be a 'glossary box' to gloss all non-English terms used in the article, but that sounds ungainly and inconvenient and could perhaps lead to worse abuses. In any case, there seems to be a need to contain the proliferation of languages by putting them somewhere where they won't intrude on the meat of the articles.

(Actually, your comment doesn't just apply to Chinese. For the Yangtze River and other rivers, for that matter, it would probably be better to put all that naming information in a box at the side. You have to wade through so much stuff just to start reading about the river!)

Bathrobe 23:45, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, and I hope you can get back to your 'real' work. I know how that goes... In any case, I'll chew on this and look at those examples and see if I can come up with something useful. Thanks again, —Papayoung ☯ 01:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

There are lots of pages you could look at. For instance, the names of ethnic minorities in China and maybe elsewhere. See the Yi, for instance. All this information, especially the exotic scripts, could be contained in a box. Bathrobe 05:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

After a little looking around, I notice that you are the originator of the Infobox template for rivers! Perhaps this river template could be modified to include information on (1) Alternative names in different languages and (2) names for different sections of the river. Would that be easy to do and implement for users? Or would we be compounding the problem? Bathrobe 01:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree this would be useful information, but I'm not convinced either belongs in the Infobox. Here's why: whether we know the information or not, every river does have all of the characteristics currently listed in the Infobox. The two pieces you mention might apply to some rivers, but certainly not all, and therefore belong in the body of the article. I also do think the names piece would compound our other issue. But that's just my opinion, and I have come only recently to the table!. f you feel strongly about it, please do bring this up at Template talk:Infobox river; there are others there who have been structuring river information much longer than I. Thanks, —Papayoung ☯ 02:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to warm this up again, but I just found your talk page. I'd like to add that there are more EN+ZN speakers than you might think. What's more important, these are the people who will want to work with China-related articles. The most knowledgeable contributors will most likely have picked up some of the language. Or, to put it very bluntly, "He spent ten years in China and he can't read one character" is the worst insult there is in Sinology.
Anyway, that's why there are so many characters in China-related articles, and it is generally a good thing, because if you just put the pinyin or the English translation in people may not know what you are talking about. I adopted the following rules for my edits (mostly Japan-related, but the problem is the same)
  1. Always put the Chinese (or other relevant language(s)) translation of the lemma right in the first line in brackets.
  2. In the text, don't use Chinese characters if there is an article about it, just set a wikilink.
  3. don't write characters for trivial or well-known terms, like "People's Republic of China".
  4. Write the characters for every important term where #2 and #3 don't apply.
  5. If there are too many characters, add some of them in <!-- -->.
As for Infoboxes, I know there is one for Korean terms, I don't know about Chinese, might be an idea. -- Mkill 18:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protected areas template

I noticed you offered some programming help on the Template:Protected Area Table.

As the comment on the Protected Area project was pretty consistent to move from a table to a template, I see no reason not to start working on it. Please see take a look at the template, and give your recommendations for improving the programming at: Template talk:Protected Area Table.

The template has been added to the following articles for testing purposes, each corresponding to an IUCN category (and therefore a different header color):

The intent is to get it in good shape, but to be aware that there may be some modifications to the template content depending on proposals at Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected Areas/U.S. Infobox Proposals (2005), with the voting ending around October 28.

Thanks! — Eoghanacht talk 20:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Sounds great. I'll take a good look and see what comes up. —Papayoung ☯ 22:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
As you'll see, I ended up coming up with enough changes that I had to show them rather than talk about them. I put it up as an additional proposal; it's all meant to enhance what you've done rather than compete with it, and this seemed the best way to share it. I'll look forward to your thoughts. Thanks, —Papayoung ☯ 05:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

I noticed you had modified the Template:Infobox River to hide the categories when the value was left empty. I was trying to apply that to a template I created for baseball, Template:Linescore9inn. Not sure how familiar you are with baseball, but the statistic save (abbrev. SV) is not given out every game and I do not want it to show up whenever a save has not been awarded. I have been having difficulties applying it to my template and was wondering if you could point me in the right direction. Many thanks. --Holderca1 18:06, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Glad to help. Replace the WP/LP/SV line in your template with the following:
|colspan="13" style="font-size: smaller;"|<div style="float: left;">'''WP''': {{{WP}}}</div><div style="float: left;">&nbsp;&nbsp;'''LP''': {{{LP}}}</div><div style="float: left;" class="hiddenStructure{{{SV}}}">&nbsp;&nbsp;'''SV''': {{{SV}}}</div>
Here's what's happening: assigning the CSS class "hiddenStructure" hides the div, but if a value is provided for SV it changes the name of the class, it no longer applies, and the contents of the div are revealed. This technique comes from the {{Infobox}} template. I used a div because spans are stripped out by Mediawiki, but that meant also wrapping the other two items in that table cell in divs and floating them, so they'll appear on the same line.
Let me know if I can help further, and thanks for your good work. —Papayoung ☯ 04:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I apprciate it. --Holderca1 14:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Protected Area maps besides "United States"

Can you help me find maps for the protected area template in the style of the proposed U.S. map?

  • Individual states for state parks (particularly Maryland, Virginia, and Georgia). See St. Clement's Island for what I have used for right now.
  • Caribbean (there are several NPS sites there, as well as a couple Fish & Wildlife and U.S. Forest Service sites)
  • Polynesia (to replace maps like Image:LocationAmericanSamoa.png)
  • Also, to encourage editors for non-U.S protected areas to use the new template, maps of other countries, such as: Canada, Australia, Ireland, UK, ...

Thanks! — Eoghanacht talk 12:44, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I would like to build a set of similarly-styled, vector-based locator maps. Thanks for these starting points. I've been looking around the Commons and will see what I can find. And I've appreciated working with you on the Protected Areas template. Thanks, —Papayoung ☯ 15:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scenic Barnstar

[ I moved it to user page and added my own (MONGO beat me to the punch). — Eoghanacht talk 16:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC) ]

Thank you! it's beautiful. I do love this work. —Papayoung ☯ 21:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Protected area template

Hi. I changed the template to make it look like sort of a compromise between the template found on all the national parks pages (such as Yosemite, Yellowstone, and Crater Lake) and your template. I was just trying to make it look better. It doens't look so good right now. Why do you disagree with me? --Hottentot

Well, I do disagree about the look: I think the older version of that template (which is what you're seeing on those pages) has unnecessary lines, bad alignment, and other problems. Those pages have not yet been brought over to the new template. But the point is, creating the new template was a group effort. You are assuming that your opinion matters more, without taking time to build consensus. The template you changed is clearly marked as being part of the Protected Areas WikiProject; please honor this collaboration and propose your changes before making them. And I'll say again: I really do welcome your suggestions. Thank you, —Papayoung ☯ 23:27, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

FYI, I have placed the new infobox on the following types of IUCN area articles for testing:

— Eoghanacht talk 15:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Eoghanacht talk suggested that you might wish to be made aware of the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Protected_Areas/Infobox#Visitation. BTW, I think the new infobox is very good, despite this seemingly minor glitch. Thank you. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 23:27, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject protected areas

I may have a new recruit for the project and he is from South Africa...any chance you could create the superscript map for South Africa, or explain to an ogre like me how you did it? Any assistance would be helpful...happy editing!--MONGO 19:56, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I tried to create a similar map for Canada but couldn't get a usable output from the site you used for the Australia map. Could you create a Canadian one? Rmhermen 01:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transparent PNGs with Template:Superimpose

Are we at a time where we can use transparent PNGs with Template:Superimpose? Internet Explorer 7 has been out since 2006, has surpassed IE6 in market share, and has support for "per-pixel alpha channel transparency in PNG images". --Geopgeop (T) 22:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It pains me to say so, but as a professional Web designer/developer I believe that there are still enough IE6 users out there that we can't depend on transparent PNGs. It is fairly easy to PNG support in IE6 but it requires JavaScript to be delivered by the page; if Wikimedia could be convinced to include it, the issue would be solved. I image somewhere there's a huge and endless argument raging about just that issue. —Papayoung ☯ 00:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your image for Yangtze River

Image:Yangtze River Map.png is nice and informative. Is there anyway you can do a similar for the Yellow River? The existing image doesn't give one the idea of where the river is within China. --tessc (talk) 20:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I made that image some time ago; I'll have to see if I have the source files for it. I'll post again here when I know. —Papayoung ☯ 04:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)