Talk:Panopticon

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Contents 1 Date in introduction 2 Original Research? 3 Proposed merge from Panoptic mechanism 4 Panoptic mechanisms 5 How does it work? 6 Eastern State Penitentiary 7 Millbank Prison 8 Which Country? 9 Confusing wording 10 biopower 11 burthen 12 Possible contradictions 13 ...in popular culture 14 Foucault's revival of the Panopticon in our time 15 Spanish "Punta" comment 16 1977 Interview? 17 Penis Building 18 Relevance of the knitting blog 19 Last paragraph needs development. 20 Merge Panopticon (Internet culture) into here

[edit] Date in introduction

In reading this quickly it would have been very useful to me to have a date or at least a century mentioned in the 1st sentence. e.g. 'The Panopticon is a type of prison building designed by the philosopher Jeremy Bentham in the Xth century.'

This has been edited to include the proper dates.

[edit] Original Research?

I can't dispute that call centers use panoptic principles, though it might be overstating to say that they "realise" the panopticon. In any case, statements such as these need to be credited to their source. Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Good citations help verify information and improve the quality of the work. Dystopos 28 June 2005 16:32 (UTC)

[edit] Panoptic mechanisms

A panoptic mechanism is a mechanism of social control based on Foucault’s ideas of the Panopticon and the exertion of discipline onto the body, i.e. biopower. In other words, any apparatus for control that is based on the "inspecting gaze" may qualify as a panoptic mechanism.^{[citation needed]}   Moved —Dogears 15:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How does it work?

I wish the article said how the Panopticon achieves its objectives. It is easy to envisage how having a circular structure could allow the guards at the center to view the prisioners at the perifery, but it is not clear to me how the prisoners might be prevented from seeing the guards and thus whether they are being watched or not. Two way mirrors? Prisioners chained to desks facing outwards? --Timtak 13:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah I see that there is..."Bentham envisioned not only venetian blinds on the tower observation ports but also maze-like connections among tower rooms to avoid glints of light or noise that might betray the presence of an observer." There would be venetian blinds on the observation rooms. I can understand how that would make the observer a bit more difficult to observe. It would be nice to know what is meant by the "maze-like connections."--Timtak 05:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that in the original Bentham scheme, that the warden would house his family in full view of the prisoners so while he was watching them, they would also have a model of decent behavior. --Dystopos 16:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Eh? But then they would know that they are not being watched some of the time, because they could see the observer. Perhaps you are joking.--Timtak 03:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern State Penitentiary

Eastern State was NOT a panopticon. The guards could see down most of the hallways but not into the cells. Unless anyone has objections, I'll remove it.

[edit] Millbank Prison

Millbank Prison wasn't a panopticon either —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.46.136.83 (talk) 23:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Which Country?

It isn't really clear to a casual reader which country the originator comes from. Also the King of which country? Perhaps mention of where Bentham comes from early in the article would help. You only really get an idea of a potential country when you read mention of British place names and the British Empire. I assume Bentham came from Britian? Ozdaren 22:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

This has been edited to include the proper country in the first line.

[edit] Confusing wording

I find the last bit of the section "Panoptic prison design" confusing. If you know what is intended, please revise the parts marked here in italics:

"... No true panopticons were built in Britain, and very few anywhere in the British Empire. Although not a Bentham design, Millbank Prison was not a direct application of the Panopticon. It was not a success, nor was it an option." Thanks --Fitzhugh 00:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This section has been deleted.

[edit] biopower

I think that there is a large omission in this entry. There needs to be a section addressing how Michael Foucault used the theory of the panopticon to create his idea of biopower. it's the major use of this theory in 20th century literature, and it really needs to be in here. (Impaler2g19 21:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC))

[edit] burthen

"lighten burthens on society". should this be "burden" instead?

Jeremy Benthan was a late 1700's philosopher that wrote and spoke in an older form of English. The quote is correct. Cf Tennyson, "the vapors weep their burthen to the ground...." Profhum 14:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible contradictions

I tagged the article as contradictory because of the apparent conflict between the statements made in section 2, and the information presented in section 2.1

If I am misreading this, please, anyone, remove the tag. But as I see it, claiming that "No true panopticons were built in Britain, and very few anywhere in the British Empire," and then listing panoptic prisons as existing in Australia, India, and the United Kingdom - this is at best misleading, and at worst wrong. - Sam 11:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Edited to include "during Bentham's lifetime". Removed contradiction tag.

[edit] ...in popular culture

Since most of the points in this section are one-sentence blurbs revolving around the entries at Panopticon (disambiguation), I am replacing it all with a simple link to the dab page, and moving the content here to keep in case it is decided that it should be put back.

• Panopticon is an album by the band Isis. It suggests the entire world is now a panopticon, due to the seemingly endless number of satellites surveying the entire globe.

• Silent Hill 4, a survival horror video game, relies heavily on the theme of surveillance and features a panopticon-like structure referred to simply as "Water Prison World."

• Panopticon is used as a literary device to describe how the 'Brethren' control the population in John Twelve Hawks "The Traveller", first book in a trilogy, 2005.

• The Panopticon is a recurring theme in David Mitchell's book number9dream, whose protagonist watches a film of this name about a ricketty prison run by a 'Governer Bentham.'

• The Panopticon is the moon-based headquarters of DC Comics' Ultraman, an evil counterpart of Superman residing in an anti-matter parallel universe.

• Panopticon is the tower where Memnarch, warden of the plane Mirrodin, resides, in the Mirrodin storyline of Magic: The Gathering. It is there that he keeps watch on all of the inhabitants of the plane.

• A Technocratic internal security organisation in the role-playing game Mage: The Ascension is named Panopticon.

• In Doctor Who, the Eye of Harmony is located on the planet Gallifrey beneath a structure called the Panopticon.

• The Panopticon allows the congress of scientists to monitor the population of Bregna in the movie Aeon Flux (film).

• In the video game Deus Ex, the password "panopticon" unlocks a surveillance AI, allowing it to merge with the protagonist.

-Sam 11:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Foucault's revival of the Panopticon in our time

Replying to Sam's comment above, I strongly suggest the Popular Culture section be put back in the text. I'll let you guys decide. The section shows how thoroughly, once Foucault dug up the long-forgotten panopticon, the metaphor began to suffuse middle-brow, then even youth culture. The Panopticon is what contemporary students hear about in their one General Ed lecture on "deconstructionism", and all that my students, at least, seem to remember from Foucault. The Panopticon has been, for twenty years, the topic most likely to be trotted out on MA grad papers, to show that the writer is aware of "theory." Indeed, now that I think of it, such paper writers are the people most likely to be coming to this handy Wikipedia article. Profhum 14:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish "Punta" comment

-the Mexican word "Punta"- was removed because the phrase was simply inserted into a pre-existing sentence and didn't make sense. If it is true please put it in a complete sentence and site it. 129.137.200.85 17:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1977 Interview?

There's a quotation from a "1977 interview" in Panopticon#Other_panoptic_structures. Interview with whom? Surely not the long-deceased Jeremy Bentham. --Jeremy Butler 12:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Penis Building

Is this the actual name? I don't see a source for it! 69.210.209.100 23:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance of the knitting blog

Why is http://the-panopticon.blogspot.com/ included in the external links? It's mainly a knitting site. --Zyryab 21:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last paragraph needs development.

The last paragragh was clearly not another example, but almost a criticsm. I hope that by pointing this out, somebody familiar with the topic can flesh out some real criticsm, and more definite examples of backlash. As for support, while closed caption video systems realise the secret monitoring aspect, can more details on the original, less virtual design be added, perhaps from the prisons that were based on Bentham's design? When was the first Panoptic prison (or other structure) built? How effective were they, what flaws did they exhibit, or what unforseen consequences were there? After a couple centuries, was there no published analysis until the television era?

Sorry if I'm demanding too much, I'm just surprised that none of these issues have been addressed yet, it would really strengthen this article. For comparison, (if I recall correctly) Eastern State Prison was designed for isolation, to allow prisoners space to reflect and be prayerful, but then the isolation turned out to be a cruelity the designers (quakers?) didn't foresee. Similarly unforseen effects might prove interesting in that they could predate the widespread surveillance in modern (at least Anglo and increasingly so American) society. I don't do this myself because I'm not really familiar with the topic (yet?), but I recall that Bentham was a philosopher whose body was preserved , and I have been to the Eastern State Penitentiary site. While I'm thinking of it, the Philadelphia Police building near 8th and Race is called the Roundhouse, I wonder if this is related. I'm kind of hoping that somebody who knows the subject a bit can fill this in before I start blindly googling. Castlan 08:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Panopticon (Internet culture) into here

I see little need for a separate article on Panopticon (Internet culture) - much of it repeats what is here, and seems to be original researched essay noting how some Internet tools & spaces have panoptic elements. It should just be a subsection here, such as "On the Internet" or similar. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 13:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)