Talk:Pancho Villa

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[edit] Year of Birth

For the sake of consistency across the Wikipedia encyclopedias, I have adjusted the date of birth from 1877 to 1878. Although I'm aware that the exact date of his birth is under debate, the general consensus seems to be that 1878 is the correct year. This discussion page brought up the birth date back in 2005, but not much explanation was given for the reason behind the two birth years in the article. If anyone strongly opposes this edit, feel free to revert the year back to 1877, but in the meantime, I'll try to browse some Spanish language (and more specifically, Mexican) sources to try to find a good source to quote for the birth date. .cosme. (talk) 14:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose

[edit] Dying Words

I always see these punctuated slightly differently, but I'm rather certain that they weren't delivered in a deadpan. Isn't an exclamation point due? --65.0.255.37 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Deadpan? I take it the pun was intended? ;-) I would assume that having been badly perforated, Villa likely barely croaked out the words before he, uh, croaked. Tubezone 06:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsupported Allegations Regarding Villa's Family Origins

I have deleted a paragraph which alluded, without mention of any supporting evidence, to a spurious "theory" that Villa's father was a Jewish businessman from Cleveland. Furthermore, the paragraph in question gave names of several purported descendants of this person without explaining their relevance (if any) to the subject at hand. The deleted paragraph follows:

-->"Another theory of his ancestry was that he was the illigitimate son of Consuelo Lopez Arumbula and Toby Dubinsky, a Jewish immigrant from Czarist Russia, who briefly visited Mexico on business and later relocated to Cleveland, Ohio, in the United States, where he married Ruth Braun and had sons Timothy, Israel (Serrol), Albert, and Sydney."<--

If the authors of the aforementioned paragraph believe that there is any truthfulness in their assertions, they should submit, for public perusal and approval, evidence, documentation and/or references that would substantiate their account.

-Speleo

Perhaps this isn't true, but you might want to check the following Pancho Villa site: http://www.ojinaga.com/villa/ and then check out a book they talk about regarding Villa's Jewish roots. Lots of research - BRAND NEW BOOK SHOWS THAT VILLA MAY HAVE BEEN JEWISH! CLICK HERE http://www.ojinaga.com/osorio/

- just check it out -- Nancy

"This was the only attack on the continental United States by a foreign government or foreigner in modern times." I removed this sentence. I think someone else attacked the US as well a few years ago. --Mixcoatl 22:51, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Took Out Some Vandalism

Somebody had added "Napoleon Dynamite" under Antonio Banderas under the list of actors who had portrayed Villa, and added something along the lines of "ima cool farmer from kansas" under the quotes. Fixed. ~Atog

Now who in the world would put that in?Iceberg2229 00:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needs Work

There are some incomprehensible sentences near the beginning: "There one of the owners of the property attempted against its older sister, and Villa hurt it of three shots, fleeing to the mount to avoid his punishment. He ran away and there join into the Gang of Francisco Villa a former cattle rustler, at his dead Doroteo take his name and his fame." Attempted what? "its older sister" means what? "hurt it of three shots" means "hurt him with three shots," perhaps? "the mount" may mean "the mountains" but a mount can be a horse so maybe he fled on a horse. "At his dead" means "at his death?" Probably needs better translation from Spanish Pdn 21:22, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

he born in mexico

In World War Two, the Japanese launched "This was the only military attack on or invasion of the continental United States by a foreign state or foreig jet-stream ballons which caused forest fires and a few casulties. Or the Japanese Sub shelling of a Long Beach, CA refinery. Would the invasion of the Aleutian Islands be consider 'continental' or not?

At a minimum, remove the words "only miltitary attack on"

So, according to a Biography (possibly by A&E, unsure) video on Pancho Villa, the truth about the whole attack-on-US-soil-incident is that it was the first invasion/attack by a foreign country on US soil since the War of 1812. Just thought I'd put that out there. How Impossible 23:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Does El centauro del norte really mean the fart of the northern sky?

[edit] Incorrect Actor

Note actor Skeet Ulrich (1956) points to modern day actor. Should add clarification.

[edit] Commented-Out material

This section was commented out and replaced by Nimlot. I have moved it here for reference.

He was born on 5 June 1877 in the Río Grande Ranch, in San Juan del Río, Durango. as a member of a very humble family. His father died while he was young, so he had to work the land to maintain to his mother and brothers, in the property of Cogojito. There one of the owners of the property attempt to assault his elder sister, and Villa shot him three times and subsequently fled to the mountains to avoid punishment. There he met and joined Francisco Villa's gang, a former cattle rustler. Upon Francisco Villa's death, Doroteo Arango took his name and his fame.

The Governor of Chihuahua, Abraham González, considered a valuable element for the revolution prepared by Madero, against the government of Porfirio Díaz. González urged Villa to fight by the Revolution by providing him with weapons and money; Villa obtained men and horses, and as ordered in the Plan of San Luis, on 20 November he led an uprising, thereby joining the revolutionary effort. He operated in the south of Chihuahua and the north of Durango, assaulting specially federal trains that transported troops north to fight the revolutionaries. Villa fought until Madero became the head of the new government, and returned to fighting in 1913 after the assassination of Madero by Victoriano Huerta. Villa then allied with Carranza against the usurpation of the presidency by Huerta, and in view of which already he had reached reputation by his boldness and value, the revolutionary heads of Chihuahua], Coahuila and Durango proclaimed head to it of the Division of the North, that got to be most powerful, between the revolutionary armies. In the Carrancistas campaigns Villa reached his better triumphs, taking Torreón, Ciudad Juárez and Ojinaga, and still he initiated the victorious advance towards the south of the country. Nevertheless, Carranza delayed to Villa by the proximity of other heads, specially the sonorenses, reason why Villa began to also separate of the Maximum Head of the Revolution. In 1914, Carranza mentioned a convention of the revolutionary forces, to file harshness among them, without obtaining its objective, because Villa seized of the convention, in Aguascalientes, and broke relations with Carranza, nominating a new president of the Republic, Villa took, with the General Emiliano Zapata, the city of Mexico, having Carranza that to flee towards the port of Veracruz. But then the sonorense Alvaro Obregón, constitutionalist commander of the forces of Carranza, calls, began to beat to those of Villa, convencionistas calls, until managing to annihilate them, in the famous battle of Celaya, where Obregón lost an arm. Villa looked for the recognition of the United States, for his government, and as he did not obtain it, he visited the border population of Columbus, where he take weapons. U.S. general Pershing entered Mexican territory, persecuting it, without never reaching it. Carranza was dead in 1917, apparently by its same

U.S. President Woodrow Wilson responded by sending 12,000 troops, under Gen. John J. Pershing, into Mexico on March 15 to pursue Villa. In the U.S., this was known as the Pancho Villa Expedition. During the search, the United States launched its first air combat mission when eight aeroplanes lifted off on March 19. The expedition to capture Villa was called off as a failure on January 28, 1917.

[edit] "Chinese extraction"

What in the world is that supposed to mean? 68.118.193.44 10:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colombian origin?

An emailed question, being posted on behalf of someone who is having trouble posting. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 20:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

> > Was Pancho Villa from Colombia? > > * > > Regarding Pancho Villa, there is a lot of controversy around when > > and where he was born. There are some theories that suggest he was > > actually born in Colombia, South America. Some of these theories > > also suggest there is no interest to find the true about the real > > place where he was born, he is a national hero and it's better if > > mexicans continue to believe this legendary caracter was in fact > > mexican. I tried to find more information about it on the internet > > but my attempts have failed. I found an interview by El Tiempo > > (newspaper) in Colombia in Spanish, February 2005, where his > > granddaughters said this is a mystery. They were asked if it is > > true he is Colombian and there answer was "this is a mystery, we do > > not know for sure". > > > > Was he Colombian?*

[edit] Bad link to editorial

The external link to a Tuscon newspaper editorial about Pancho's statue in Tucson does not work. I have searched the newspaper's archives for 2003 and 2004 and turned up nothing. The link needs to be corrected or removed. Jm546 21:55, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Birthday?

Why is it that we give two different dates for his birthday? Lead gives a very exact date, but then the body insists on a different date. I think the source of the discrepancy should be explained. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 19:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

actually no one knows for sure when Villa was born, so 2 dates are listed.

[edit] rancho villa

I've seen (somewhere) Villa was killed on his ranch @Parral. Confirm & include? Trekphiler 23:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Microsoft Encarta states he retired to his ranch in Chihuahua where he was killed in 1923. -ksands 23:10, 10 January 2006

  • If that's what Encarta states, Encarta is wrong. (See, that'll teach you to trust Bill Gates) All the reliable sources I know of say he was killed in the streets of Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua. His bullet-riddled car is in the Museo de la Revolucion in Chihuahua City. His ranch was the hacienda of El Canutillo, Durango. Tubezone 10:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
yes, he was killed by a party of assasins while he was leaving in his car to his Hacienda. Theres an Antonio Banderas movie that depicts the events rather accurately.

Microsofts Encarta is definitely wrong if it states that Villa was killed in Chihuahua. My Father was born and raised in Parral and was close by when it happened. Not on the same street, but a block or so away. Villa was not recognized by everybody as a hero, but more or less a trouble maker who got power from taking from other people. Even the poor whenever it benefitted just him. Without jury or justice he killed innocent people who just wanted to live their lives and support their families. In the words of somebody who lived in this place at these times, Villa was a Bandit/Murderer/thief who forgot the very people who he began fighting for.

[edit] Buried Treasures

According to treasure and metal detecting magazines, such as Lost Treasure, he has literally buried/cached several gold and silver items worth @ least $20 Billion in several places in Mexico. Martial Law 20:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

These magazines may be found in metal detecting dealerships, online. Martial Law 20:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vandalism

took out the words "oh yeah baby, give it to me" from the section outlining the revolt against diaz

[edit] Source info in first section?

Should the source info really be in the first section? I think it should be moved to the bottom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.173.170 (talk) 06:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Potential fact error introduced - due to defective bullets Purchased from the United States

This statement was added by User:64.113.172.14 on March 21, 2007. The referenced URL, Villa's Raid on Columbus, New Mexico makes no mention of such a purchase. Instead, there is a paragraph about alleged arms purchases that were reneged. Recommend deletion. Ronbo76 11:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Descendants"

It describes Villa's sister's daughter's sons as his descendants. However these are not direct descendants of Villa's as they are neither his children nor descended from his children. Should the language be changed to say that they are the only known living relatives? I didn't want to make that change because I don't know if it would be accurate stated that way but perhaps someone who knows more could confirm this? Usually when one says descendants one is talking about a series of one or more parent-child relationships.

[edit] Wikipedia has two pancho villa pages

Insertformulahere —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Markmrf (talk • contribs) 22:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] two pages on Pancho Villa

I find two pages on Pancho Villa under two different URL's. Also I don't think Pancho Villa was in the Vietnam war and I'm pretty sure he didn't drive a pink pickup truck or found the Yamaha Motorcycle company.


Markmrf 22:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That looks like vandalism to me.Iceberg2229 00:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article

I guess the article is better off referring to what it is address to now inspite that there's another person who goes by the same name. The one here is the original to wear that monicker. FoxLad 04:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll add redirects from Doroteo Arango Arámbula and Doroteo Arangoalready done by someone else to this article. --barneca (talk) 14:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yaqui

My father has always told me that he was a Yaqui. Perhaps someone out there can verify this...--Amedeo Felix 17:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC) The talk page is for discussing the article, not your father's origins.Iceberg2229 00:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Man, what a horrible misunderstanding leading to some hilarious ignorance. Way to read english, Iceberg2229. amadeofelix was asking as to whether or not Pancho Villa was of Yaqui descent, NOT his father. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.52.61.22 (talk) 09:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I've been looking at the article, and it needs some cleanup. It discusses mainly the political problems of the time instead of the life of Pancho Villa like it should. Otherwise me might as well rename the article.Iceberg2229 00:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] huh?

i took out the trivia section because it did not contain references. Iceberg2229 00:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conflicting information

"Villa's remarkable generalship and recruiting appeal, combined with ingenious fundraising methods to support his rebellion, would be a key factor in forcing Huerta from office a little over a year later, on July 15, 1914."

"The loss of Zacatecas in June 1914 broke the back of the Huerta regime, and Huerta left for exile on July 14, 1914."

Obviously, these can't both be right. --69.7.37.69 (talk) 07:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC) pancho villa is awesome —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.102.15.114 (talk) 16:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Date of death

Google seems fairly evenly divided between 20 June, 20 July and 23 July. Can anyone convince me which one is correct? -- JackofOz (talk) 13:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed possible vandalism/Lead needs clean-up?

I removed a reference to a "Sam Buckhalter" who doesn't appear elsewhere on wikipedia or return any google results besides those that are directly quoting the text of this article. If it isn't outright vandalism, Mr. Buckhalter doesn't seem significant enough to warrant a mention.

I also wonder how people feel about the lead to this article. It seems a little messy and I don't think it gives a good overview of Villa's life and significance. What do others think? Does it need a re-write? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afamiglietti (talk • contribs) 14:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)