Talk:Panathinaikos

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[edit] Origin of shamrock and choice of colours

What's with the shamrock on the club crest? Is there an Irish link? Anyone know? --Ukdan999 00:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

no... there is no link to any irish background I have found a source saying that it was a gesture of europhilia: Greekworks. And that's pretty much it. Would also like to know why.
There is apparently no Irish priest in the story, no British sailors teaching Greeks how to play the game (although this is part of the story of how football came to Greece) and certainly no "Europhilia". (The latter is doubly absurd. In the first half of the 20th century, there was no "European affiliation" to speak of amongst inhabitants of the Balkans!) The true story appears to be far more simple but perhaps a bit more romantic than other, more widespread versions : One of the early sports heroes of the club, Mikhalis Papazoglou, was originally born in Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey, where he was an athlete for local Khalcidona, a club mostly of Greeks living in the city. Khalcidona's colours were green and white, and its symbol was the shamrock. The humble shamrock is a very common small plant of free and abundant growth in the Balkans. It is assigned various attributes, mostly having to do with good luck. Panathinaikos' Board in 1918 (or 1919, according to other sources) decided to establish a single, official set of colours and symbol, and adopted Mr Papazoglou's proposal of green and white, along with the shamrock (trifili) as the symbol, literally duplicating what the team from Constantinople wore. Constantinople (Istanbul) was, at the time, very dear to the rising Greek nationalism-come-irredentism. (See : Megali Idea.) So, anything honoring or supporting the motherland's connection to "the capital of Byzantium" was predictably welcome. And there you have it. The Gnome 13:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Here's one online secondment of the above: Knowledge Unlimited

[edit] Titles

http://www.greenwebfans.com/view/el/DisplayArticle.aspx?147 on the above link you can find OFFICIAL DATA FROM AN OFFICIAL RESOURCE over the titles issue.I want to state clearly,that the above website is made by a Panathinaikos Fan Club, but with no doubt, the data contained are valid and not any form of propaganda. The last decade in football olumpiacos has won more titles than Panathinaikos, but that can't change history.As an Athletic Club, Panathinaikos AC has more titles than any other greek team.Unfortunately we have not found data for all the teams in Europe to make some comparisons.

look at the greek site of olympiacos. are there any official sources??? everyone but you accepts this facts. go to sites of each federation and you will find yur sources. --Galis 16:21, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Olympiakos Titles are officialy recongised by Panathinaikos history books. These 363 titles are only recognised by some PAO fans. Please write down your sources or stop using lies.--KOmparos 16:23, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
i will not repeat myself. the sources are all over the www. since 1998, by the way, exists an encyclopedia about PAO where all titles are mentioned. i do not think that such big clubs as PAO and olympiakos would lie in their own books...
"Olympiakos Titles are officialy recongised by Panathinaikos history books" do have a source for this statement...? --Galis 16:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Of course, look at Panathinaikos encyclopedia. It says nothing about 363 titles. --KOmparos 16:32, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
of course there are mentioned less than 363 titles because since the appereance of this encyclopedia PAO has won a lot of titles more. but the titles are only one fact. what about the single department. PAO has more departments than olympiacos. or would you say that this is also a lie?? the connection of this facts most titles + most departments makes tha club the biggest in greece --Galis 16:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
The titles are not a fact. In 1911 Pao does not even exist and you count that as a title. Fancy what other false titles you have add.
PAO was founded in 1908... --Galis 19:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
"Please remember to remain civil and assume good faith."
of course. :) --Galis 16:30, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
I demand that he must write down in the article which official federation mention that PAO has won the football championship in 1911.... --KOmparos 16:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


I don´t know how old both of you are, but one day you surely will laugh about your discussion. ;)
-> KOmparos: First I have to say that i don´t like the way you discuss. It´s not OK to insult others to pass once opinion. We (as Olympiacos fans) should be so self confident to accept some "numbers". -> Galis: YES you have more titles and YES you have more departments and I have no Problem to accept this. But remember one thing: Your Club was founded in 1908. Ours in 1925. In 17 years many thing will have change. And finally: in football we will always be number 1 and we have more supporters than you! ;)
-> Admin: I would suggest to keep the text mainly how it is now. Just take away the word biggest (at the Olympicos article too). As AEK or PAOK too, both Teams are big. --145.254.254.68 12:26, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

It is totally subjective to use a fans site in order to prove how many titles a team has won. They count 1 woman title, 1 man title, 1 man and woman title...get serious!

[edit] 1911, 1922 and 1925, 1926, 1927 Football Titles

source: http://www.pao.gr/category.php?category_id=51 (Official web site of Panathinaikos FC) GR_MANOS 22:27 (GMT+2), 7 June 2006


The above link doesn't clearly state if it was a Greek championship or not. I assumed that it was a Greek championship, because in the article of Alpha Ethniki it shows it as Greek Championship. On the other hand, according to one of the links in this article and to the magazine Mad Boys (http://www.greekmeds.gr/forum/index.php?showtopic=4495&pid=28838&mode=threaded&show=&st=&) that in 1922 Panathinaikos won Athens-Piraeus Championship. For this reason I'll remove this, till someone bring a reliable source stating that it was a Greek championship. GR_MANOS 23:04 (GMT+2), 7 June 2006

According to the Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesg/grkchamp.html

1) Panathinaikos (as POA) won the 1911 SEGAS Championship
2) Panathinaikos (as PPAO) won the 1922 EPSAP (Athinai/Piraeus) Championship
3) Panathinaikos won the 1925, 1926, 1927 EPSA (Athinai) Championships

For sure, 1911 and 1922 titles should be counted, because that years were the only championships held in Greece.

1925, 1926 and 1927 titles, is not clear if they should be counted even though these were the only championships that the team could participate from 1925-1927. It is totally different with the rest of Panathinaikos' Regional Championships, that used to be the preliminary round of the Greek Championship.


[edit] False titles?

Women's volleyball. 1970 greek championship false. http://www.sportsnet.gr/7/70v/70v5/70v51/g70v512.html Fencing. Many false titles. You count 10 years titles twice. http://www.sportsnet.gr/7/70r/70r5/g70r51.html Chess. Only two championships 1970,1971. http://www.sportsnet.gr/7/70z/70z5/70z51/g70z511.html Boxing. 14 championships, no cup. http://www.sportsnet.gr/7/70x/70x5/g70x51.html 1911 greek championship in football is not recognizable by Greek Football Federation so it is invalid. Wightlifting. 1969 title is invalid according to official greek weightlifting federation.http://www.weightlifting.gr/Greek/frames/file3.htm Table tennis. 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956 team championships not officialy recongised. http://www.sportsnet.gr/7/70b/70b5/70b52/70b522/g70b52201.html

These links are from the ministry of sports, so are the only valid. http://www.sport.gov.gr I would like to ask you where you have found the sources for cycling and athletics. --KOmparos 12:11, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

After that PAO has 40 titles in football, not 41. With the corrections according to the Greek Ministry of Sports are 300. I would like also to see the official archives of cycling and athletics federation because it is not online. --KOmparos 17:31, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

-> Komparos Volleyball for example did not start in 1970 in Greece! The titles mentioned in the article are correct (but i´m not sure for one of the soccer titles). Many of them just were won, before each of the department becomes proffessionally. About one ore one and a half year ago the newespaper sportime, which is independent, printed an article about Panathinaikos and it´s titles. I don´t think that they were trying to change the history, too. --145.254.254.68 12:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Greek Volleyball federation does not recognize 1970 women championship so is invalid. Newspaper Sportime is clearly friendly to PAO as all greek people who like football know. --KOmparos 12:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Please use English/Page protection

Could I ask participants in this discussion to please only use English so that I can moderate appropriately. I fear Greek is being resorted to trade insults without my knowing. If it is necessary to communicate in Greek, please ask a Greek-speaking administrator for assistance (such as User:Mel Etitis). As an aside, I am going to unprotect the article. However, if the revert warring continues I will immediately reprotect it. Please do not edit the article with regards to this dispute until agreement has been reached. It appears to me that this is a rather silly dispute, that can easily be resolved once bloody-mindedness is abandoned.--cj | talk 15:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

The word "biggest" must be deleted and the titles of PAO have to be recognised by the officials federations of its sports. Otherwise every team may claim that has won titles some time in some sport and will be ok... --KOmparos 17:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Why the word biggest and that fake number 363 are still online? --KOmparos 17:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Panathinaikos and Olympiakos are the best clubs in Greece, so in both their articles their should be refered as one of the biggest clubs. Panathinaikos is certainly not biggest than Olympiakos since Olympiakos fans are about 45% and Panathinaikos about 35%. Zito ta xania


[edit] Panathinaikos is one of the biggest clubs

Nonone can say that Panathinaikos is the biggest club in greece. It is totally unacceptable. Olympiakos has the most fans in Greece. The best choice is not to mention who of two is the biggest since there are such kind of arguments! Zito ta xania @ Green : Instead of answering to what I am saying you try to make me look a vandal... I change the phrase "the biggest" to "one of the biggest". Am I a vandal? Or you are trying to promote a hooligan point of view ? Since when vandalism is to promote the neutral point of view? Why should wikipedia take position on a subjective characterism. Panathinaikos is of course a big team but accepting that is the biggest is another statement. Everybody then can claim that theirs political party is the biggest or their nation is the greatest etc...

...the biggest in terms of number of departments established (21) and overall titles won by them (482).
i think this is the reason why he uses the word "biggest". --Galis 11:50, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

This doesn't appear to be the reason. It more seems to be a way to promote hooliganistic ideas in sport clubs. Moreover why did he claim that I am a vandal? The word biggest must be deleted or change to one of the biggest. It is against the pilar of neutrality. Panathinaikos supporters may claim that their team is the biggest but anyone can make such a claim! I demand that the neutral point of view rule must be applied.--Zito ta xania 15:30, 4 February 2006

if we regard it neutrally PAO has the most titles and departments. so seen one can follow this argumentation ("biggest"). nobody claimes that PAO has more supporters. --Galis 14:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

The word "biggest" suggests just biggest, it doesnt mean "biggest in terms of departments, titles ,etc". I can believe your being neutral but our friend green dismissed my argument by calling me a vandal. However if this is actually the case the syntax is wrong as it imposes that PAO is simply the biggest. May I propose a syntax with the meaning you explain here? "PAO is the sports club with the most departments and most titles in Greece."

Is there any objection on th syntax I propose? Should I change or I'll be characterized a vandal? I write it once more so to be noticed : "PAO is the sports club with the most departments and most titles in Greece."--Zito ta xania 20:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

@Green: My friend nobody changes anything for two days and you come again reverting my changes without even argue about what you think is right. I am going to say it again; biggest is a wrong word to use as it doesnt reflect the intended meaning! Therefore the best syntax is "PAO is the sports club with the most departments and most titles in Greece". --Zito ta xania 07:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Again I am being characterized as a vandal from my beloved friend green who hasn't replied in any talk page I started the discussion of this subject. Why dont you press the discussion button and let us listen to your arguments?--Zito ta xania 13:52, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] N. 1 in sports departments in the world

Only in my country, I can remember at least two sports clubs with 20 or more active sports departments (Associação Académica de Coimbra and Sporting Clube de Portugal). Many other clubs have a large number of departments in Portugal, and in other places like Spain, Turkey or Sweden large multisports clubs are popular too. Page Up 03:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pavlos & Thanassis Giannakopoulos

Re pedia, pou boroume na vroume stoixeia (viografika) gia na grapsoume arthra gia aftous tous duo? Epsaksa sto google alla den iparxei tipote... KaragouniS 20:06, 8 November.

(Translation of the above: "Where can we find biographical data on these two [the current owners of Panathinaikos Athletic Group, i.e. the non-football teams] ? Google shows nothing".) Why don't you try the archives of their pharmaceutical companies or of the Greek Industries' Association ? You also have the Greek newspaper archives. The Gnome 10:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Titleless departments not listed

Before the departments break-up, there used to be a list with all the team's departments and establishment year.After the break-up this list has vanished and only the departments that have won titles are mentioned.Which was a big mistake and unfair for them.And there are pretty important ones like our water polo team.Someone should find a nice way of reimporting all the info that existed on that list and now is missing.Thank you.