User talk:PalawanOz

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[edit] ADM Bloggs, RAN

FYI: At CDF you reverted an anonymous user's edit and said: "'RAN' is standard after naval ranks". Prior to the anonymous edit, I had posted a question at "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#ADM Bloggs RAN ?"; I imagine that the anonymous edit was a reaction to my question.
Also, I have made some comments on that talk page about your reversion. I look forward to "hearing" your response.
Regards, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
(I will have made some comments soon ... Pdfpdf (talk) 11:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC))
(Comments have been added to "Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#ADM Bloggs RAN ?" - Pdfpdf (talk) 12:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC))

Woo hoo!! This is warming up! Thanks for making comments "congruent" to mine, though I realise that wasn't your intention. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeah - I'm not exactly sure _why_ it is warming up.... the real-life standards seem pretty clear and concise, with not a lot of wiggle-room in them... and really, why the fuss?? PalawanOz (talk) 12:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Fair comment. Maybe I should back off. I have to admit I was enjoying myself, but I also have to admit that there really isn't any good reason to let this person's comments mobilise me to a full-scale attack. OK, I will exercise some restraint. Pdfpdf (talk) 13:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC) (P.S. Thanks.)
Well - keep your powder dry as the good Rear Admiral Bloggs (, RAN) would say... PalawanOz (talk) 13:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Boom boom! (Lol!!!) Pdfpdf (talk) 13:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh dear: "Oops, I did it again." Perhaps it's time to put the bins out and go to bed ... Pdfpdf (talk) 13:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems to have gone quiet ... Pdfpdf 08:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:SXmasthead.png

Thanks for uploading Image:SXmasthead.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 20:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DFSM on Australian Honours Order of Precedence

Putting the ribbons-with-rosettes on the Australian Honours Order of Precedence "seemed like a good idea at the time", but I'm now questioning that judgement and thinking of either reverting it, or putting some sort of footnote.

  • On the one hand, none of the other medals show "bars", "rosettes" or "stars".
  • On the other hand, "lots" of the current batch of senior military have the DFSM with rosettes.
  • And on a third hand, it is explained more than adequately on the DFSM page.

What do you think? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 23:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I was a little unsure myself about including those.... like you mention, it is covered on the medal page itself - I included them there for that purpose. We don't show images of multiple bars on the other medals (eg, VC, GC) which have a particular device on the ribbon. I would lean towards removing them from the Australian Honours Order of Precedence page. PalawanOz (talk) 07:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Thanks for removing them. Pdfpdf (talk) 12:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2 Fed stars?

edit to remove "+" from 40 yr medal - 45 yrs service would have two Fed Stars

Employing basic arithmetic, I take it that your edit comment implies that 4 rosettes = 35-39yrs, 1 Fed star = 40-44yrs, 2 Fed stars = 45-49yrs, etc.?
I pretty sure regulations require retirement by age 65yrs, so 3 stars isn't possible, so we can eliminate that from the discussion straight off.
I'd be pretty surprised if regs allowed service after age 60yrs, which would make 2 stars academic too, wouldn't it?
But if 45+ yrs is possible, my interpretation of "although the fifth and subsequent clasps are indicated by a small Federation Star" is was "the fifth and subsequent clasps are all indicated by the one small Federation Star".
Hmmm. On writing this, the source now seems ambiguous. I now don't know what I think!
It's my suspicion that 2 Fed stars can't happen - that's why no such ribbon appears on the DFSM page.
You know, you'd think I'd have better things to do on a Saturday night, wouldn't you! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 :) 2 Fed stars could certainly happen - particular in the Navy, with the early entry ages that occurred back in the olden days (eg, 13 yo recruits in the 40's and 50's). Also, retiring ages are changing - now 60yr, could be 65yo sometime in the future. So - possible, but very rarely.
Yes, I agree with your line of reasoning, but what about interpretation of the regulation? I see it was you who created all the ribbons with rosettes and stars on the DFSM page. Is there any particular reason why you didn't create a ribbon with 2 stars? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cosgrove and DFSM

Got any idea how to verify if Cosgrove got a Fed star, or if he has 4 rosettes? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm - his bio here indicates he joined RMC in 1965, and retired in July 2005. Entry to RMC for a degree would have been in January, so I guess he would have had 40 years and 6 months of service. This photo here to my eye looks like he has a single embellishment on his DFSM... so I'm going to be bold and change his entry to reflect a Fed Star awarded. PalawanOz (talk) 00:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I read a similarly worded bio with the same dates and wondered "When in 1965?". I agree with your "early 1965" conclusion; even if he didn't start till Feb or March, it's still more than 40 years, so I support and applaud your boldness!! Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
And yes, that's a photo of the signing of the DMO/ADF/AusDoD MOA (Gee, doesn't Defence love TLAs!) taken prior to 1 July 2005. (i.e. prior to DMO becoming a "prescibed agency", and prior to Cosgrove's retirement.) So I'd say that definitely supports your reasoning!
BTW: Original appearance at:
Photo: http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/04-05/dar/img/cdfsecdmo_lg.jpg
Context: http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/04-05/dar/06_02_newera_spf.htm
Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cosgrove and Tong-il Medal

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/cosgrove.htm says it is Tong-il medal from the Republic of Korea. It seems the colour match on Image:Tong-il Medal (South Korea) ribbon.png is not very good ... Pdfpdf (talk) 13:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, that's ambiguously worded. What I was saying (ambiguously) was the colour match on the various photos of Cosgrove and the Image:Tong-il Medal (South Korea) ribbon.png is not very good. The colour match with http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/cosgrove.htm is much closer.
The colour match I did for the Tong-il medal was based on several pics on various sites Diggerhistory, Gen Pave presentation, Gen Casey presentation, all of which show it to be more 'pink' than 'red'
Agreed.
- Cosgrove's official portrait did seem a little washed out (for colours), so I wasn't depending on that so much.
That was probably a wise decision.
If you find a good resolution shot of the Korean ribbon, I am happy to amend the image I created. PalawanOz (talk) 03:37, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm quite happy with what you've done. (Now, if you could get the ADF to re-colour-balance Cosgrove's official portrait ... ;-) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cosgrove and Légion d'honneur

Further to other discussion on this page, I agree that the ribbon should not be on the bar, so I'm going to split the table and title the 2nd table "other awards". And I'll stick the Houston ribbon in there until the actual ribbon can be determined.

BTW: There's no medal or ribbon for Australian of the year, is there? Pdfpdf (talk) 10:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

No - not as far as the published Order of Precedence is concerned. And no, I dont believe there is an unofficial one either - this page just talks about a trophy. PalawanOz (talk) 10:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
OK. Ta. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Looking at 2002 picture and Légion d'honneur#Classes and insignia, it looks a bit like Image:Legion Honneur GC ribbon.svg, but the Légion d'honneur article says The badge of the Légion is a five-armed "Maltese Asterisk", and that "thing" on Cosgove's left pocket looks like it might have six arms.
What do you think? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I see that The Order has a maximum quota of 75 Grand Cross ... . Seems a bit unlikely he'd be initially appointed to the highest class which only has a maximum of 75 members, doesn't it? In which case, what is that "thing" on his left pocket? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The 'star' insignia you can see in this pic is actually the Korean Tong-il medal as shown here. PalawanOz (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

So it is! Thanks for that. Cheers,Pdfpdf (talk) 10:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC) (So we're no closer on the grade of Légion d'honneur!)

Confirmed as the rank of "Officer" in the Légion d'honneur PalawanOz (talk) 07:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Well done! How did you confirm it? Pdfpdf (talk) 13:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
A good source (someone who used to work with him) :) PalawanOz (talk) 13:02, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Lol!! Pdfpdf (talk) 13:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grã-Cruz Ordem do Infante D. Henrique (GCIH)

Hi, (me again). You seem to be a "creator extrordinaire" of ribbons. How do you feel about creating one for the GCIH? (It looks pretty simple?) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
http://www.ordens.presidencia.pt/ordem_nacional_infante.htm
http://www.ordens.presidencia.pt/ordem_nacional_infante_insignia.htm

It was on my list of things to do today :)
What impecable timing you have!
One thing though - I have not seen any pics of Cosgrove wearing either the French or Portuguese awards - even the latest one I referred to above taken in 2006.
Actually, that photo was taken mid-2005
Possibly more recent photo is http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5274989,00.jpg, but they're not in that one either.
As a result, I removed the French award from his ribbon bar.
Yes, that's appropriate.
Also - I have not been able to confirm the grade of his Légion d'honneur
Neither have I.
- it changes the ribbon design. PalawanOz (talk) 01:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I was (probably unjustifiably) bold, assumed (probably poorly) that it would be the same as Angus Houston's, and copied it from there! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replies

Too many conversations going on at once, including my wife telling me to get off the computer and fix the laundry door! I'll reply later.
A short summary of all answers would be something like "Yes, I agree with you." Pdfpdf (talk) 03:50, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm back. Replies interleved above. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cosgrove

(Am I the only person who "talks" to you?)
Thanks for moving the picture - they are the same reasons I put it up even higher in the first place. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Better a small amount of friendly chat and consultation than heaps of abuse! :) PalawanOz (talk) 11:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Lol!! Too true!! Regards, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:19, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Molan

Guess who? (Unfortunately, no prizes for correct answer.)
Jim would have to be my favourite General. All those guys 2* & above are pretty cluey and a delight to talk to (but I have to admit, mostly you listen!!), but Jim is exceptional. (I find it a pitty that "those in power" don't seem to agree with me. You ought to hear him talking about his time in the MEAO - the Yanks recognised his abilities!!) So thanks for the ribbons. I was getting around to it, (really, I was), but hadn't got there yet. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ken Gillespie

What are those last two ribbons? Pdfpdf (talk) 13:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

UNTAG (link) and UNTAET (link)... with a good pic here to help :) PalawanOz (talk) 15:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Jeffery

[edit] Badge on left pocket & KStJ

RE: http://www.gg.gov.au/img/gallery/items/758.jpg

  • He doesn't seem to be wearing ribbons for AC, CVO or KStJ.
    • The AC is around his neck
    • Presumably the badge on his left pocket is CVO? If not, where's the CVO?
    • If the badge isn't CVO, then presumably it's KStJ (but it's the wrong shape), so where's the KStJ?

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Ribbons for the Order of Australia aren't worn separately from the medal - the AC is a 'Neck order', and hence, not worn on the left breast.
The CVO is also a 'Neck order' - he can't wear both at once, and the AC takes precedence.
The star on his left pocket is actually the same as for a Knight of the Order of Australia - as seen in this pic. In his case however, it is signifying his status as the Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order.
It seems I'm not too good on pinning down those "badges on the left pocket".
(BTW: I eventually found the CVO badge - it looks more like the KStJ badge than the AK badge!) Pdfpdf (talk) 15:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The KStJ seems to be missing in action - and I haven't seen him wear it in any other pic. I also note that the 2008 Year Book does not list the post-nominal (although it does for other GG's). More investigation required methinks. PalawanOz (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] National Medal & clasp

RE: National Medal, who has he been associated with for 25 years? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Re National Medal - must be for his ADF service. The bar is (just) visible in the pic you reference. PalawanOz (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Having done some reading, I guess you must be right, but it puzzles me; I thought that's what the DFSM (plus clasps/rosettes) is for.
The information is ambiguous. e.g. National Medal (Australia) says: In 1982 the defence forces withdrew from the National Medal, with the introduction of the Defence Force Service Awards. However, it then goes on to say: Even now, however, defence force service can be counted towards the National Medal under certain circumstances.
http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/medals/national_medal.cfm says: The National Medal recognises long and diligent service by members of recognised organisations that help the community during times of crisis.
To confuse further, Jeffery's DFSM says 35-40 years service, but his NM says 25-30 years. Adding to the confusion, Cosgrove's DFSM says 40-45 years service, but his NM says 15-25.
More investigation required methinks. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image:DistinguishedServiceCrossRibbon.jpg

I just completed the FURs, only to find you'd de-linked and relinked to Image:Distinguished Service Cross (UK) ribbon.png!
So now you have a choice!! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 05:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that :) It was a very easy ribbon for me to whip up, and place on Commons (vice the original which is on English Wikipedia). The style/format/look of the one I did will be consistent with all the others that I have done for the Australian and New Zealand Honours Orders of Precedence pages, so will go with that for those. PalawanOz (talk) 06:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting that you were able to create a new ribbon more quickly than I could create the FURs, isn't it!
And yes, your new creation can be used with much less overhead. (I just thought you might find the scenario amusing.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 08:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Davyd Thomas

Hi, you have placed information on Rear Admiral Davyd Thomas' page stating that he is now Deputy Chief of the Navy, I am curious to know are there any references to back this claim? I am still receiving information stating that Rear Admiral Russell Crane is still DCN, so are you sure Thomas has assumed this position? Or do you mean he will once the Defence Leaders change over on 6th July? Thanks, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't find an online source for this.... take my word for it? I am sure it will come online shortly (perhaps when they do the big update in July). PalawanOz (talk) 08:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)