Talk:Pale of Settlement

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Danny, what is the Russian word for which "Pale" is the translation? It might be worth mentioning that Pale is an Anglo-French word (from the Latin palus, a stake, related to palisade and to paling), that the original Pale was the "English Pale" around Calais in the 15C, and that the term was then transferred to the area of English settlement in Ireland in the 16C. (Hence the expression "beyond the Pale.") I'm curious to know who decided to apply this word to Russia, and when. Adam 16:12, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi, Adam. I checked with our historian of Russian Jewry, who gave me the Russian term: cherta osedlosti. According to him, cherta means literally "line." As "Pale" the term has been around for at least one hundred years. It appears in the 1916 translation of Dubnow's History of the Jews in Russia and Poland. My guess would be that they borrowed it from the Irish incident, but as of yet I have no evidence to back that up. Hopefully Jtdirl or some other Irish specialist can enlighten us more. Danny 03:25, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

An email from a colleague at work: I did not find an answer yet, but I found out that the full name was "cherta postoiannoi evreiskoi osedlosti" - "Pale of the Permanent Jewish Settlement." I have an article in Russian with me which tells about the formation of the Pale. It does not give the name who and when coined the term, but provides a lot of interesting information. We can look at it together. As you can see, the answers are on the way. Danny 02:50, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Baltics

What was the status of Jews in Baltic regions, other than Lithuania? I.e., how was it in what is now Latvia, Estonia an Finland? mikka (t) 02:20, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Life in the Pale

Although the article directs you to History of the Jews in Poland and History of the Jews in Russia and the Soviet Union, those articles really don't say much about life in the Pale. Therefore I added a few paragraphs, which could of course be expanded. The reference to Sholom Aleichem as being the portrayer of "Life in the Pale" is pretty ironic, since he satirized religious Jews, who made up a large proportion of the Pale population. Yoninah 21:43, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Western Russia?

Looking at the map, it looks as though the border of the Pale corresponded fairly well to the present-day border between Belarus and Russia, and that in the Ukraine the border of the Pale was well to the west of the present day Ukraine-Russian border. Was there really very much of western Russia within the Pale of Settlement? john k 18:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)