Talk:Pai, Thailand

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[edit] Pai Police Discussion

I have noticed that many 'academic' wiki participates are quick to remove reference to the Pai police department citing that this is not qualified 'wikinews.'

The fact is if that any of you have ACTUALLY BEEN to Pai recently, then you would see that it is more than news and actually just a way of life.

I understand that your interests are to keep wiki clean and filled with only factual and unbiased information, what you need to understand that amoung the residents and vistors to Pai, this is the Factual information and a way of life rather than passing news.

We always welcome edits and help with articles,however please reconsider next time you snap the undo button and consider visiting and living in Pai before you appoint yourself editor and expert on the subject. Wwind (talk) 14:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Although wwind's edit is very ranty and in need of facts, he is definitely correct that the Pai police conduct is a relevant, long-established, innate aspect of Pai that must be documented here--not just the one shooting but the overall trend. It is something that nearly every Pai citizen has thought about a lot in the last few years and makes up part of the inherent atmosphere and climate of Pai. An encyclopedia entry without it would be like an entry on Isreal/Palestine that didn't mention that little conflict they're having. I replaced Wwind's rants with solid historical facts of several incidents with references. That should address the issue of suitability for Wikipedia. 125.24.174.136 (talk) 18:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for gathering up those facts and references. It can definitely be compared to the Israel-Palestine conflict as the police behavior has just become a part of the daily life and feeling and definition of the town. If somebody wants to remove that stuff, I ask that if you have not been to pai latey, then you do not understand what is happening in the town. Wwind (talk) 06:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I still think the whole police issue is irrelevant, as this is an encyclopedia, and not a list for news reports. Nor is Wikipedia a soapbox where one can express the discomfort with some local authorities, or speculation on the reasons around it. And it is quite obviously not NPOV, as it is only written from the view of a few farang living there. That section makes up about 50% of the whole article, as if this is the only thing notable about this small town. I of course know there IS a lot of corruption in Thailand, and wouldn't be surprised if one or several underpaid local officer have abused their power. But this still does not make it important enough to be featured in this detail here. andy (talk) 20:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Andy - have you been to pai Lately? what you have just stated is if we had an article on China and did not mention that they were communist. Since it is in the Region, i will also refer you to the Wiki article on Burma- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma - specfically the portion about the monks protest - is that information in the article -'News' or 'Wiki worthy' The fact is that pai has and is now a police state and anybody who has visited for more than a few days will wholeheartedly agree. just because it isnt in the guidebook (at least not yet) doesnt mean that it is not true. Wwind (talk) 10:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I haven't been in Pai yet. But does that matter? If this information is only accessible to someone who stays there, and does not get any mention outside there it is probably no that much relevant, and we have a problem with making those statements to be confirmable with external sources. As you like to give comparisons - if someone writes about a crackpot physical theory here, and he claims that only when you have studied it in detail you are eligible to have an opinion about it. I don't doubt that the farang community in Pai has the impression of the local authorities doing something wrong, and I fully understand the grief about the recent death of a tourist. But from all what I hear in the sources available to me, this was "just" the case of a police office having his finger too close to the trigger of his weapon, shooting instead of trying to deescalate. Something that can happen everywhere, and it only got into the news outside the town because a foreigner was involved. But the claim that Pai has become a "police town" to me seems to be more using Wikipedia as a soapbox (which it is not) than something proveable, relevant and notable. andy (talk) 12:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

For interest, regarding "The fact is that pai has and is now a police state and anybody who has visited for more than a few days will wholeheartedly agree", I live in Thailand and I was in Pai for 10 days a few days ago and I wholeheartedly disagree. Calling Pai a 'police state' does slightly devalue the term 'police state' don't you think ? Hmmm...I wonder if restrictions on the movement of hilltribe people by the army checkpoints near Pai gets close to being police state-like...but hey, who cares about them, they're not important compared to tourists and foreign/Thai residents. However, I would add that my experience and opinion is of no consequence since it is original research which does not belong in wikipedia. Sean.hoyland - talk 03:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)