User talk:PageantUpdater/Archive 1

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1 Welcome!
2 copyright
3 re: Eeek! Newbie seeks help :)
4 Pictures
5 Reading (activity)
6 Removing annotation
7 Need help re Categories
8 HUH????
9 Hi - still having trouble finding articles?
10 Fairuse images
11 Image Tagging Image:Usa2003s.jpg
12 Image Tagging Image:Usa1998s.jpg
13 Image Tagging Image:RImain.jpg
14 Image Tagging Image:Usa1967s.jpg
15 Image Tagging Image:Usa2002s.jpg
16 Image Tagging Image:Usa1964s.jpg
17 Image Tagging Image:DE06.jpg

[edit] Welcome!

Hello, PageantUpdater/Archive 1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --kingboyk 07:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia as we drive for print or DVD publication; see the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. --kingboyk 07:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not sure if you're adding the pageant articles because you are interested in the topic, or because you have a site to promote. Either way, don't you think it would be better to post more thorough articles with a photo of each lady, rather than just lots of small text articles? :-) Just my few cents. --kingboyk 07:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Let me just clarify those messages. Carly was adding lots of small articles which were one line and some external links. That warranted the 'spam' warning, rightly or wrongly. I added my own little suggestion that she should maybe slow down on creating stubs and instead work on each article one at the time, so another editor wouldn't start tagging her work for deletion (or speedy deletion). Consider it to be at the time a balance to the spam warning, "you're probably well meaning so here's a tip for you!" I'm certainly keen to help a newbie and, well, here I am :) --kingboyk 01:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] copyright

I noticed on Emily Poeschl appears to have her bio copied from an external web site. Please don't copy/paste text from other web sites, except in the very rare case where it's public domain or licensed under GFDL. You are welcome to write a bio based on the facts in the external web site, but you just can't copy the words. --Rob 09:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Eeek! Newbie seeks help :)

You wrote:
Ooops, well it took me an hour but I finally figured it out. Thanks for answering my previous question though :) Its nice that people are so willing to help us newbies :)

Hi (think I'm doing this right?) anyway, you very helpfully answered a help question I asked (re a template thing) and I went to the template page but still couldn't figure out what I needed to do.

If you've got a spare minute to help an incredibly uncertain newbie trying her best to figure the whole wikipedia thing out (!) would you mind emailing me? I'm finding this whole communicate-by-wiki thing a bit tricky and I don't mind the world knowing this email address: <something>@gmail.com

Thanks! CarlyPalmer 08:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)Carly

Hi Carly - I'm glad you figured it out (looking at your contributions I suspect you're talkng about Template:Miss USA 2006 Delegates, which is quite a complicated thing for a new user to be attempting - well done!). Once you get the hang of it, talk pages are real easy. A couple of hints - most people add new discussions to the end (if you click the "+" tab when you're looking at someone's talk page it starts a new section at the bottom). Then, you can click the "edit" next to an existing section (like any other page) and add a response to a comment. If you add the page to your watchlist, you can see when they respond to your comment (if they respond there). Some folks will respond directly on your talk page (like I'm doing here), with or without the history of the discussion. If you need help on anything please don't hesitate to ask. I see kingboyk left you a welcome message, and then some other messages that I suspect you didn't think were very welcoming. It doesn't look like you responded to his messages - you might want to just drop by his talk page and say hello. Although I don't know him, I strongly suspect he would also be quite willing to help as well. The whole point of welcome messages is to be, well, welcoming. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Re new articles and search - If you enter the article title and click "go" (not "search") you should be able to get to any article no matter how recently it was created. "search" (not "go") is based on an index that is rebuilt only occasionally (like once a week, but I don't think it's even regular - a developer actually kicks it off manually every once in a while), so it typically won't find recently created articles. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Rick -- tried it but its still not working (GO)... probably I'm best just sitting tight and learning patience! CarlyPalmer 19:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Hi Carly. You wrote:

You mention pictures... I went to upload a picture but was turned off by the Images found on websites or with Google's image search should generally not be uploaded to Wikipedia. message and by the "summary" box - can you offer me any help in this direction?

The summary box is used to enter a brief description of the picture and where it came from and (if it's a copyrighted picture we are using under a part of US law called "fair use", it needs a brief summary of why we think it is "fair" to use it on Wikipedia). There's also a drop down box to select the licence type/copyright status of the picture.

Why don't you give me the URLs (web addresses) of a couple of the pictures you have in mind. I'll check them and see if I can ascertain the copyright status, and if they're OK I'll upload those 2 or 3 so you can see what an edit summary should look like. Since these are photos of beauty queens I should add:

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it!

You probably wondered how I found you in the first place. There's a special page called Special:Newpages, and I was patrolling that. I saw you were a new user and thought I'd best drop by and give you a welcome and some pointers.

I'll 'watch' your page so you can answer here if you like. See ya. --kingboyk 01:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm slowly learning things around here - and help from people like you is certainly appreciated!:) A couple of the photos I'd like to use: http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9243/azwiki9bl.jpg (for the page Brenna Sakas) and http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/4532/newiki7nm.jpg (for the page Emily Poeschl). And don't get too giddy :P CarlyPalmer 02:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

That's just the images. Can you give me URLs where the pictures are inline? (i.e. web page, not just the image). --kingboyk 02:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh sorry, well this is where it gets tricky. As you have no doubt figured, many of the pictures will come from my website but obviously the pictures themselves originally came from a lot of different sources. Some were taken from other websites, some emailed to me direct by the delegates, their family members and their directors. As for the photos I've put the links for... one came from here and the other was emailed to me by the director but is also available here. Hope this helps! CarlyPalmer 02:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Well since it is your website, the message I first posted about adding links to your own sites does apply. As for the photos, you'll have to work out where you got each picture from and a) choose a suitable entry from the drop down list (promotional pics given to you for free use on the web can go under "Promotional material (advertising, press kits)" I think) and b) Just put a synopsis in the summary box. You'll have to do it yourself as only you know the status of each picture, but I'm happy to review if you let me know when you've done a couple. Don't worry too much though, the worst that can happen is the images will be deleted. If you act in good faith you won't get into trouble. Have a read and think about the external links guidelines though, because articles which are written to promote a website you own generally are difficult to assume good faith about. --kingboyk 02:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused... say there was another pageant fan site with a profile of a delegate, and I linked to that page, what would the difference be? I would do just that but we're (I'm only assistant webmistress of the page) the only page that I know of (so far) that has profiles of the delegates up. The only other site is the official Miss USA site, which I've also linked to and the the official state sites, also linked (well it they're not, they should be but as I said I'm still working on things. Surely where the link is relevant it should be okay? CarlyPalmer 02:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

<-- Yes of course, but it's generally best to let other impartial editors decide that your site is so great it should be listed. We aim to link only to authoratative sites. There's also the problem that your site has adverts on it, so you may or may not have a financial interest in getting links from Wikipedia. --kingboyk 02:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Lol I'm not trying to be argumentative about it, but who exactly can we get as "impartial editors" lol my partner in crime (just joking) is responsible for that side of things and she doesn't even know I'm going mad with Wikipedia... if you want authoratative sites, well look no further. Not meaning to brag, but among the pageant community our website (which has been going for three years, although I just started working on it at the beginning of the year) has some of the best, most detailed information and the most pictures around. I most certainly didn't start wiki-ing to get more people to the site, I started because I noticed a lack of info on here :) Surely the point of putting external links is that people can find more information about a subject? I certainly can't post all the hundreds of pictures I have on the site on wiki so wiki is sort of like a summary thing for people to read quickly. As I say, if I can think of other sites to link to (and I just did... tftj.com I will add them). CarlyPalmer 03:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes I appreciate your point. But we're building an encyclopedia NOT a link farm! :) Note that I'm an "admin" so it's my "job" (sadly unpaid) to be a stickler for the rules :) "Impartial editors" are people who come along at a later date. People unknown to you. We're in this for the long haul, with any luck your articles will still be on display in 50 or 100 years. There's plenty of time you know!

Anyway, I don't have time to worry about that, you know the guidelines it's up to you now how you interpret them. Let's see if we can sort out this picture business for you. Find a couple that you know the copyright status of, upload them and I'll check it out (oh the sacrifices I make). --kingboyk 03:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Lol well give me some time to think about the links thing... don't want to go off my head :P:P:P -- but the pictures I can deal with ;) Take a look! (Noelle Meyer, Tamiko Nash, Brenna Sakas) - all fleshed out and with pictures :) I'm learning at least! CarlyPalmer 04:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Image:Azwiki.jpg, I've added "for promotional use" to the summary. Image:Cawiki.jpg (my favourite ;)), you need to expand the summary - "emailed to me" is not enough - who owns the copyright, and why are we allowed to use it? Image:Akwiki.jpg needs some additions to the summary too. So far so good though, shouldn't be any problems. --kingboyk 04:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing AZ - reread your message after I'd already had a go with that. CA - it was emailed anonymously to me. That same person posted it on message boards. It has not been posted on the official site nor anywhere else on the net. So what exactly can I add? Thanks! (You'll also notice I dropped you a line on your talk page) CarlyPalmer 04:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I have to ask? What's your interest in this? Are you a former contestant yourself and if you are where's your picture?! :P --kingboyk 04:57, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Lol - just a hopelessly obsessed fan :P There are more than a few of us (check out voy.com/191501/ if you want more - and lots more pics to tempt you!) :) -- CarlyPalmer 05:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reading (activity)

Hello CarlyPalmer. Thank-you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

I notice you have been contributing some articles about various Miss USA state delegates.

The term "reading" has has come up as a wikilink. This links to a disambiguation page. Ideally the links should go directly to a page describing the particular meaning in question. In these case you may want to link the page "Reading (activity)" whilst showing the text "reading", resulting in: reading. This can be done by entering the wikilink as:

[[reading (activity)|]]

Thanks, Duckbill 21:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks back! I noticed you'd changed some of them... I wasn't exactly sure of the coding and was eventually going to go back to your edits and copy&paste but this saves me the bother :) Much appreciated! CarlyPalmer 21:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing annotation

Hi. You removed some info about Claudia Jordan being on The Price is Right. I put it back, and hope for more "little notes" like that in other contestant/winner lists. Wiki articles should not just be lists of data. Also, saying something about contestants makes the list relevant and important to non-fans (giving a good reason to pick one name to click on). Also, you'll find on Wikipedia, if you make content that doesn't make its importance/relevance clear, somebody, somewhen, will just remove it entirely. I know the annotation doesn't "fit" the pattern, but that's unimportant. --Rob 23:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rob! I deleted this because I thought she'd left the Price is Right as she is now on Deal or NO Deal. I was going to add the bit about DOND but I forgot. I've g2g right now but when I get a moment I'll check up on that one. CarlyPalmer 23:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Another thing (was thinking about this) - your point about "wikipedia not being lists of data" and your suggestion of adding 1-line descriptors to add relevance is brilliant... so I'm going to go back through the pages and add them where appropriate :) CarlyPalmer 23:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need help re Categories

Hi! You offered me some help with a prob I had but its still not fixed so I thought I'd post this here so you saw it :)

I've created a category called "Miss USA delegates" but I want to add in the main text (see also "Miss USA 2006 delegates" and "Miss USA winners") which are categories in their own right. Is it possible to do this and if so how? CarlyPalmer 21:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If I'm understanding you correctly, then it seems you (or someone) has already done it. If not you'll have to be more specific.--Cherry blossom tree 00:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Not exactly -- the text currently reads "Delegates in the Miss USA pageant prior to 2006." -- I'd like it to read "Miss USA delegates - see also 'Miss USA delegates 2006' and 'Miss USA winners' and have those last two "see alsos" link to the appropriate cateogries. Is that possible? CarlyPalmer 00:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added the see also links. To like to a category you should write [[:Category:Miss USA winners]] (note the initial colon.) Category:Miss USA delegates 2006 doesn't seem to exist at the moment - is that just because it hasn't been created yet or because I've put the wrong link in? Feel free to alter it if the latter.--Cherry blossom tree 01:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I probably gave you the wrong text :P Thanks so much for fixing this so quickly - greatly appreciated!!! CarlyPalmer 01:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

A category should almost without exception be a child of another category, to help with navigation and organisation. It's also a good idea to have a "top level" category on a given subject (such as Category:The Beatles) with subcategories below it. So, that's exactly what I've done for you - see Category:Miss USA. --kingboyk 03:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! But is there any reason that there is an S and an s? -- dashing to lecture but thanks for this anyway... great idea CarlyPalmer 03:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure there's a reason: operator error! Fixed. --kingboyk 04:01, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HUH????

Why on earth would you mark the Miss Ohio USA page I just created with a nonsense tag???? Just so you know I got rid of it quickly. CarlyPalmer 01:29, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I marked the Miss New Hampshire USA with it, since it was Miss Ohio USA. --Rory096 01:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well I just noticed that... and have fixed it . Perhaps a note to me pointing out the error would have been a good start before marking nonsense tags? CarlyPalmer 01:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Didn't have much time, there was a lot of vandalism at that time. I figured the tag would get your attention. Sorry about that. --Rory096 01:45, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well you were right about that one!!!! All fixed now, OH is on the OH page and I got NH back on the NH page so there should be no more problems :) Just a simple case of operator error :P CarlyPalmer 01:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi - still having trouble finding articles?

Hi - Just thought I'd drop by and see how you're doing. Looks like you're talking with lots of folks and creating articles and adding pictures and having a good time. In the thread way above you mentioned you were still having trouble with "go" (not "search") not finding articles. If this is still an issue one possibility is that article names are case sensitive. Usually, but not always, if you enter the article name in all lowercase (for example) the system will find it when you hit "go" even if the case doesn't exactly match (like names, for example). If you type "halle berry" in the search box and hit "go", you'll get to Halle Berry. If the article name is mixed case and not just initial capitals, this won't work unless someone has added a REDIRECT (see Wikipedia:Redirect). If you've run into this and want some help, let me know. (feel free to reply here) -- Rick Block (talk) 03:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rick - nice of you to think of me :) Yes I am still having that problem... for example I created the "Miss New York USA" article almost five days ago now, and it still doesn't come up when I type "miss new york usa" into the box and hit "go"... quite annoying actually - but what is even stranger is that some of the articles I've created more recently are coming up fine :P Anyway, if you have any more thoughts they'd be appreciated... another thing, if you get a spare minute some time would you mind looking at one or two of my articles and see whether I'm wikifying them properly? Thanks again! CarlyPalmer 04:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Like I said "go" is usually, but not always, case insensitive. This is a case where "go" is case sensitive, so to get to the article you have to type "Miss New York USA" (exactly) in the search box and hit "go". If you want to fix this, you can create a redirect article. Either miss new york usa (all lowercase) or Miss New York Usa (every word with an initial capital) will do, and add a single line (with no whitespace before the "#")

#REDIRECT Miss New York USA

What this does is make it so any case version of "Miss New York USA" (like "mISs nEw York uSa") matches the redirect article, which then sends you to the actual article. You can add as many alternate article names as you want (you only need one to fix the case problem) - for example, seems like you might want Miss New York to redirect to Miss New York USA. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Rob - but I'm so illerate that I can't even figure out where that is supposed to go :P If you have time, do you think you could perhaps do one example for me just so I can see exactly what I need to do? Thanks! CarlyPalmer 03:39, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miss_New_York_Usa&redirect=no . (and it's Rick, not Rob) -- Rick Block (talk) 04:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! (And my bad :P too much time staring at a screen addles your thought process :P) CarlyPalmer 04:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fairuse images

Hi. Unfortunately, I think you probably can't/shouldn't use multiple fairuse images in Miss California USA. It's a grey area, but generally WP:FAIR wouldn't allow this, I think. At a minimum, a picture has to be used to illustrate the subject, and the content of the article must substantially discuss what's shown in the picture. Since we're merely listing the contestant names, that's not sufficient. IMO, it's best to keep fairuse promotional images of people to their bio article. In other articles, like Miss USA and Miss America, I've been lucky, and found a some public domain images. But that's hard in a case like this. So, anyhow, I suggest removing the pictures, especially ones where there's no discussion of the person. Also, I apologize in advance, since you'll likely read opposite opinions from different people on fairuse policy. And I am not an expert, or an authority. I just want to pre-emptively fix this matter. --Rob 23:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Meh I like the piccies! Your're probably right though :P Would even using one be too much? Perhaps if I just got left the most recent Miss USA? Glad you got to me on this before I put the rest of them in! I've put a couple of pictures of the most recent Miss 'State' USA (1 per article) for some of the other states (see my contribs)... think I should delete them as well? For example Miss Rhode Island USA.... CarlyPalmer 23:30, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It sucks I know. I used to many fairuse images myself, in the past (and wish somebody told me, before I wasted my time, and had to remove many). I can't tell you if even one is ok, because I'm not an authority on it. If you do keep 1 pic/article, I would suggest putting in some content about the person, and their signficance. Hopefully we'll get lucky and find more public domain images. --Rob 23:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

One area I should have mentioned, is that when there's a choice, the public domain should definately be used in preference. I put back the PD image in Miss Massachusetts USA. Fortunately, we do have PD images for the last several Miss USA and Miss America contestants, which I've put in their respective state-level articles. --Rob 00:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)