Talk:Pacific Islanders rugby union team
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[edit] Niue and the Cook Islands
The article "Pacific Islands Rugby Alliance" says "Niue and the Cook Islands are also members of the Alliance, and while not members of the Pacific Tri-Nations competition, they can and do supply members to the Pacific Islanders team." Is it true?
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- The cook islands supplied one player for the tour in 2004. --Bob 18:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Squad update
Deacon Manu has withdrawn accoring to [1]. Justin Va'a has been added to the squad. Narrasawa 06:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Future status section tagged for tone
I added the tag because I think this section is speculative and seems to represent personal views. The style also strikes me as being somewhat paternalistic. It might be better to revise it with references to views from media and the rugby unions of the three countries.Rexparry sydney 13:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- The section has stood pretty much unchanged since August 2004 when their future was extremely uncertain. As far as I can tell it's now much clearer the Islanders will not be joining Super 14, nor the Tri Nations or replace its 3 members. If as seems likely they continue as a team they will be like the British and Irish Lions, one tour every so often.GordyB 13:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Part of second para removed
I have removed the words in italics from para 2:
- "They play fewer Tests and lose by greater margins as more of their top players play in New Zealand, Australia, Japan or Europe and don't return to play for their countries, or transfer their allegiance to other international sides, most frequently New Zealand." (Tagged Fact|date=February 2007).
What actual evidence is there that top Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan players are transferring their allegiances to other international sides? I know there is a common view in Europe and RSA that this happens to the benefit of the All Blacks (as you will see on many rugby blogs) but those espousing this view are often ignorant of the large population of immigrants from these islands in NZ, as well as in Australia, where their kids play for schools and junior teams and develop there and become eligible for the ABs and Wallabies. This is how players like Rokocoko become All Blacks, not because he "transferred his allegiance" once he was a top player in NZ, he's been a New Zealander since primary school. There may be a couple of ABs, such as Sitiveni Sivivatu, who got a high school scholarship to play rugby in NZ in their early teens, but does a few cases justify the wording which was in the article? Isn't it also possible that the standard of rugby in these countries benefits from having players exposed to competitions in Europe, Aus, Japan, NZ? The article needs references based on facts. Rexparry sydney 14:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- The article was based on three or four different news articles so that sentence will have been from an original article. Back then Wikipedia was a different animal and there wasn't the big fuss made about references that there now is.
- I think a more NPOV way of putting it is that there are a number of players that are qualified for either a major side like NZ or Aus as well as an island side and there is a tug of loyalties as a result.GordyB 17:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, that seems a good way of putting it. Rexparry sydney 02:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- There certainly is a misconception out there (mainly in the Northern Hemisphere) that players are recruited from the Pacific Islands to play for the All Blacks or Aussie or whatever. It's simply not true. I read an article recently that compared the number of foreign born players in the RWC, and 14 of the Samoan squad were born in New Zealand! I think NPOV language is a good idea, but we also have to be sure to not be applying undue weight to the issue. - Shudde talk 02:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, New Zealand are more sinned against than sinning. It's the same sort of fuss (on a more minor scale) in the NH. English born and bred players will play for Scotland / Ireland / Wales on the strength of one grandparent but if it happens the other way (e.g. Dublin-born Kieran Bracken) then people start pointing the finger.GordyB 09:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
