Talk:Pacific Electric Railway
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Some notes: /list of lines /corporate history /downtown routings
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[edit] A fine article
Congratulations to the contributors. Bryan 22:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] pacific electric railway relief map from 1920
http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb638nb72q/ (material in public domain) If this is a useful map, would someone care to add it to the article? -Tonyinthailand 08:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Influence on other systems
I've removed the following text from the article because it reads like a babelfish translation that needs quite a bit of work (and citations) first:
==Affected foreign countries== ===Japan===
- Pacific electric which was the company which performed rapid transit with the exclusive orbit subject resembled closely towards a Japanese electrification private railroad than American other electric railroads.
- There was it in what I could put what Pacific electric railroad and a Japanese private railroad came to resemble together for development of electric railroad technology, and living apart with other routes was able to perform by having been a subsidiary of the Southern Pacific railroad which was population growth having advanced, a trunk route in an area, but a part of a Japanese early stage of electric railroad engineer and manager hit route construction and inspected Pacific electric, and there was the direct side to be affected.
- Hankyu and Tokyu, take in technique of Pacific electric and Huntington performing railroad extension and residential land development in parallel positively from the establishment of a business period, and it may be said that it is a successful example. In the bedroom town by Development along the line of Pacific electric, inhabitants move to a very large house than a thing of the suburbs with expansion of a freeway network, and I take place, and it is it with the town where the inhabitants who cannot "have a car" live in, and there is not a little the area that became a slum occurring frequently of a brutal crime in the integrated telephone service riot that occurred along ex-Long Beach line Pacific electric abolition several years later as a start in the line. When thought about this, technique of Pacific electric as a developer was over without settling in Los Angeles as the head family, and it watched fixation in impossible Japanese metropolitan area or Keihanshin district area rather to be completely dependent on a car from the crowd degree; can ask it it.
- In the present, it is said that influence amounts to the train bodies color of a red system such as Keikyu, Meitetsu (as for Meitetsu, car turn mark style of handwriting or electric locomotive body color) even if only the painting says, and the body color of Kanto Bus approximately just imitates the bus body color of Pacific electric railroad. But, as for the colour of the ground, it of Pacific electric was silver for white of Kanto Bus. （Kanto Bus regarded the ground as the silver painting to a head at the beginning of 1950's, too.） In addition, a logo is similar shape, too. Pacific electric can always ask this about what was incised on the mind as a certain model for an early stage of electric railway and bus enterprise.
Slambo (Speak) 18:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What were GM and the other companies convicted of?
Many people frame their opinion about the GM Streetcar Conspiracy by starting with the statement that GM et al were convicted of conspiring to rip up streetcar systems across the country. This is an incorrect interpretation of the federal lawsuit, and is often presented as prima facie evidence that the conspiracy was real, and that the companies were guilty as charged. The problem is that the two counts that they were charged with in the lawsuit were simply 1: Conspiring to monopolize the provision of transportation services, and 2: Conspiring to monopolize the sale of equipment and supplies to their subsidiaries (National City Lines and others). They were acquitted on the first charge of trying to monopolize transportation services, but were convicted on the second charge of trying to monopolize the equipment sales to their subsidiary companies.
They were never charged with anything like a conspiracy to rip up streetcar lines, only that they didn't allow competitors to sell the City Lines tires, fuel, and buses.
The conviction was appealed, and the original conviction was upheld by the appeals court. The appeals court ruling contains a summary of the charges, and how they were interpreted, and can be examined in the link below:
http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/770576
Many sites available on internet are very wrong about the court case and the court verdict. They often reference other similar-thinking sites as proof of what they are saying, and it has reached a point where there are so many references and mutual cross references to incorrect information, that readers have come to believe that GM was convicted of conspiring to shut down streetcar lines simply by the imposing number of web sites that say it is so. One of the hazards of internet.
Instead of linking to web sites that contain various authors' opinions about the court case, the reference to the appeals court ruling, cited above, should be the conclusive reference cited in this article, as any other sites typically repeat urban legends, without proper documentation. The court ruling is a clean, seminal source, and is not colored by people's interpretation of the case.
As a final thought: Since National City Lines had less influence over the Pacific Electric than on other streetcar lines in the country, perhaps the bulk of the discussion of the conspiracy theory should be contained in the article covering that subject. This article would only need to contain a summary of the actions National City Lines took while they owned the system, and direct readers to the conspiracy theory article, where the subject would be in one place, and could be explored in more detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Form19y (talk • contribs) 02:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
