Talk:Other Backward Class

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Reservations are legislative response to historical social injustices.

Can we scrap reservations if 85% of marriages in India are inter-religious or inter-caste? Unknownworld 14:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


Reservation won't do any good to OBC till they learn the art of Grabbing Power. Quote from Laloo Prasad yadav.Holywarrior 07:39, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


Reservations and the Media

Abhishek Behl April 20, 2006

This was my first article on this forum called Chowk. I am posting it on wikipedia to let people know the story from stakeholders, who belong to backward class.

I am here because I think this is one of the most democratic things to happen today. I say so in the light of the fact that the conventional media, both print and electronic, has failed to evolve into a mature organism and this is perhaps due to the fact that more businessmen than journalists and more professionals have entered this profession for the sake of moolah rather than for any genuine commitment for the society. Today, I begin with an issue which is close to my heart and whose coverage by the media has shocked the wits out of me i.e. the raging issue or rather a non-issue called OBC reservations.

OBCs which have around 60 percent of the population in this country called Bharat consist of various castes particularly the working classes-Barbers, Boatmen, blacksmiths, carpenters, washermen, oil-millers and numerous others.

Historically and in reality, this section of the society comprises of the section called Shudras, in fact all those sections of the society which were not the Brahmins, Rajputs and Banias were Shudras. And, mind you the present day SC/ STs were not even included in the Varna system imposed by the Brahmin-Rajput nexus for centuries in this country.

Nowhere in the world was such a devious system imposed on the 80 percent population of the country to keep themselves out of the loop of life. Untold, miseries were imposed upon these people in the name of Varnas, they could neither read nor write, they could not migrate from one village to another.

There were separate quarters for them to live, the people could not intermarry, and they would not climb up the social ladder, there was no equality before law and these people were like slaves.

The domination of upper-castes was so pernicious that it would allow these people to breathe in open air let alone live. It was only after the arrival of British and after the independence that the SC/STs and OBCs could at least think of being free. Although the constitution had given them equality before law, but it could not ensure equality in society. For these low castes were still the scum of the society, the laggards, who were a burden on the nation. The government still was controlled by the high-born, the politics in their hands, business was theirs and so was the entire power.

However, due to some minor or major changes there was a change for the good also. Due to his sheer obduracy, Ambedkar managed to beat the class conscious Congress into submission and won for his brethren some concessions.

These were yielded but grudgingly, but the major change was effected by VP Singh, the Mandal messiah, worshipped by some and castigated by others. His gambit of giving the 27 percent reservations perhaps changed the entire political spectrum of India.

In one stroke he had empowered the OBCs, the pushovers, who had been lost in the development debate. People, who had numbers but no political will suddenly emerged from the shadows and boondocks of Bihar and UP and numerous other areas and decided enough was enough.

This also led to the emergence of Lalus, Rabris, Mulayams and score of other leaders, ready to take on the caste politics till date being played with ease by the upper caste congress and Jansangh.This and perhaps the later developments are too known to discuss here.

However, one thing must be said that the upper castes, who have never considered the OBCs as their brothers have never taken kindly to this revolution by their standards of the low caste lohars, chamars, telis and their ilk. In the present case also, while Arjun Singh, he might want some votes, has tried to provide some succour to the OBCs through reservations in IITs and IIMs and other institutes of higher learning but this has been opposed by the rich and powerful upper castes. Perhaps they forget that for four thousand years the Brahmins had simply reserved education for themselves, no one could learn Vedas, none could recite holy mantras, and no one could learn any skill which was not sanctioned by his caste. This was perpetuated with such conviction that even now the upper castes believe that India should revert to old system of Varnas, where they enjoyed all the power and pelf, no questions asked. And guess which section of the society is upholding this notion?

The much enlightened Indian Media. In his edit page in The Indian Express Shekhar Gupta writes, "Arjun Singh is more direct, first pushing for reservations in private institutions and now slicing away half of the IITs and IIMs for reserved quotas.

But his desperate bid to re-invent himself as V.P. Singh Mark II will not benefit his party. It will damage it as much as V.P. Singh Mark I did. Given today’s messy politics nobody wants to vote against any idea of increasing reservations. But he will only succeed in destroying these great institutions by politicising them.

To that extent he will be more successful than his predecessor, Murli Manohar Joshi. And just as Joshi did, he will also turn away the middle-class, upwardly mobile, even small-town and aspirational voter in disgust.

Further, it will not impress the OBCs." Shubojit Mehta writes in Indian Express, “The first voice of protest against Human Resource Development Minister Arjun Singh’s decision to impose 49.5 per cent quota in IITs, IIMs and Central universities has come from the high-profile National Knowledge Commission (NKC), which reports directly to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and whose mandate is to sharpen the country’s “knowledge edge”.

The above examples are not exceptions but the norm. Perhaps, this is due to the fact that ninety-nine percent of the Indian media is controlled by the upper caste and class conscious intelligentsia. Most of the journalists writing and producing stories might have their own constraints and the interests of their own to take care of. However, in the interest of justice and journalism itself, it is important that they report events and news taking into account the versions of both sides and make the story balanced.


I read the article below in Hindu and its a wonderful piece in which the author offers a non-partisan support to reservations in IITs and IIMs.

Abhishek Behl


Eviscerating a holy cow

NISHEETH SRIVASTAVA

LET US NOT DELUDE OURSELVES. IIT IS A VERY EFFICIENT AND CONSISTENT BREEDING GROUND FOR PRODUCTIVE MEDIOCRITY It is very fashionable for the young upper middle class `global' Indian citizen to inveigh against the `sectarian', `populist' and `parochial' policies of the government. The article `Reservation saga' (Open Page, April 23) denouncing 27 per cent reservation for OBCs in the IITs and IIMs falls under this category. It seeks to question the validity of the anti-reservation lobby. As a specific case, we will examine their claims with regard to IIT.

The most feasible approach towards analysing the argument against reservation in IIT is to view the underlying axioms that its proponents cheerfully assume to be unquestionably true. The most banal of them all is the presumption that the IITs are merit-based `prestigious' `temples of education' that command international respect. Centres of excellence? Merit-based? As of JEE 2004, more than 25 per cent entrants to IIT had been enrolled in a coaching institute named FIIT-JEE. The curriculum is based on analysing trends in JEE papers and focusing students' preparation on mindless precision in solving problems to clear the JEE.

The fee for the two-year course is upwards of Rs. 40,000. And FIIT-JEE is but one of myriads of coaching institutes that populate the high-school education system in our cities. Vidyamandir in Delhi, Ramaiah in Hyderabad and Bansal in Kota are household names in the society of JEE aspirants.

All these institutes, with perhaps the honourable exception of Vidyamandir, concentrate on rote-repetition and practice to prepare candidates for the JEE.

Prestigious? Infosys recruits upwards of 50 B. Tech students, from a batch of about 500, to work as software-writing minions at a salary of Rs. 11,000 a month. The IIT system has acquired a reputation for producing `techno-clerks' to create wealth for the burgeoning Indian economy. That's not prestige; it's pragmatism.

Temples of education? Of the 180 credits that a B. Tech student is required to accumulate towards completing his degree, how many do not relate to science and technology? A grand total of twelve — including an instructional course in English. How much flexibility does a B. Tech student possess in deciding his course work? None.

Let us not delude ourselves. IIT is a very efficient and consistent breeding ground for productive mediocrity. It generates graduates with a one-dimensional view of the world and with an intellectual horizon stunted to perform in a particular field of economic activity, viz. technology.

This leads us to the crux of the argument against reservation — there should be no regulations upon excellence. "Why not have reservation in the army? Is education not as important as defence?" goes the plaintive cry. Such an argument would have much merit if we were speaking of actual centres of research that do indeed strive for creative and disciplined endeavour — TIFR, BARC and IISc are the first examples that spring to mind.

But to raise such an argument in favour of the IITs evinces an almost criminal disregard for the ground reality.

Even a cursory perusal of campus culture in the IITs — their cultural hierarchy, their social interactions, their means of recreation, etc., paints a definitive picture of IIT students as self-aggrandising delusional brats living off the fat of the land in the form of subsidies that an indulgent government continues to ritually bestow upon a system that has deviated so far from its founding principles that it betokens those who feel responsible for it to look the other way.

It is instructive to note that the only opposition to the reservation proposal arises from the sections of society that will `suffer' as a consequence — the self-labelled `Forward Class.' Both the faculty and the administration of these markedly autonomous institutes have expressed no views publicly on the matter.

Does this not imply that a concern regarding the dilution of merit as a consequence of the reservation is groundless? Either that or, as is more likely, the faculty at these institutes is too blasé to view any change as making a difference to the commercially guided ethos that prevails. Suggestion Thus, the argument against reservation ought to be viewed for what it is — a self-serving, pompous plaint. A parallel could be drawn, without much exaggeration, with the righteous indignation of the French aristocracy at the time of the Revolution. While a caste-based reservation system may be opposed on other principles, the argument that it would dilute the quality of the intellectual product it offers India is flawed because it presupposes that such quality actually exists. This is an extremely narcissistic claim.

(The writer is a student at IIT Madras)

This is NOT a place to make speeches. Please write a blog or put up a new site. Only speak about the article in question and not about your opinion about reservations. Remember, space on this talk page is only reserved for relevant material and not for OBC/SC/ST s, nor for any other purpose. 203.115.91.208 15:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Other Backward Class and Reservation

We will go on adding Scheduled Class, Scheduled Tibes, OBC, Dalits, Harijans. In last 1000 years one fifth population of world have not contributed anything for education say for small value of ball point in education. In Papal Commission Galelio was freed after 400 years but still we believe blind faith in Ram, Krishna and Shiva Temple where as historians say that Mahabharat and Ramayan are nothing else but only stories or Kathas. All the students of IITs and IIMs are requested to study the same also. Regards vkvora 16:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I did not get what exactly you tried to say. Could you please elaborate?--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article 51A of Constitution of India

I request the readers to read the Article 51A of constitution of India. vkvora 16:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Here is the link and read 51A(h) also for development of scientific temper.

http://lawmin.nic.in/coi/PartIVA.pdf

Regards vkvora 16:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] defination updated

The definition is updated as per the one present at the official government website. http://ncbc.nic.in/ Since the definition is official it has to be presented as it is.

Something that's generally ignored when the OBC list is looked at, is it's dynamic nature. Any caste or community can fall in that list prescribed at the central list guidelines. Certain communities are present is certain states and certain absent.BalanceRestored 12:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] what is a backward caste?

There is a link in the "see also" list for backward caste, but it is redirected to this article.--Filll 18:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)