Talk:OT VIII
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[edit] Summary?
Ariane Jackson's writeups from memory are the most respected summaries of OT VIII out there. Would anyone like to try summarising it from her writings? - David Gerard 11:02, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
- David, unless I'm very much mistaken, Jackson is talking about what the Church calls "New OT VIII",[1] and not about the level previously known as OT VIII, which is what the Fishman OT VIII is asserted to be. Jackson herself stated:
- "OT8 has totally changed and has none of the Fishman version. It is actually just a review of all of the person's auditing and a verification/nullification of discoveries the person has made about himself. It consists of ONE question (in two parts) repeated."[2]
- We have it both straight from the CoS, and from Jackson, that there is more than one OT VIII, but the article does not address the difference between "old" OT VIII and "New OT VIII". The syllogism that "Ex-members know what's in the real OT VIII; Ex-members don't recognize the material in the Fishman OT VIII; therefore the material in the Fishman OT VIII is not the real OT VIII" no longer holds together when there is more than one document that has been "the real OT VIII". I think we need to revise the article to reflect this. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
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- I've shuffled stuff a bit. The OT-VIII in Fishman isn't generally accepted amongst critics, as far as I can tell (that might be original research of course). Note that Fishman obtained the OT-VIII in the affidavit from a different source to the OT I-VII, which are accepted as accurate (because the Church considered them copyright violations) - David Gerard 13:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- If you think about what Antaeus is saying, though, it makes sense: I've long suspected that the CoS uses different material for different people, depending on what they think is most effective for that person. We just don't know what a "real" OT VIII is for sure, or if there's even a standard anymore. wikipediatrix 14:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- I've shuffled stuff a bit. The OT-VIII in Fishman isn't generally accepted amongst critics, as far as I can tell (that might be original research of course). Note that Fishman obtained the OT-VIII in the affidavit from a different source to the OT I-VII, which are accepted as accurate (because the Church considered them copyright violations) - David Gerard 13:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
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- True. However, they seem to use consistent versions of OT I-VII - David Gerard 14:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- I wonder. I'm pals with a Scientologist who won't talk about OTIII, but swears that there's no mention of Xenu in it. Of course, if there was, she's obligated to lie about it anyway, but she's really really not a good liar at all, she's very transparent. Something tells me that post-South Park, the CoS has pulled a switcheroo and is now either saving Xenu for a higher level or omitting him entirely. (If provable, this would be a massive instance of church-approved squirreling). wikipediatrix 14:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
- True. However, they seem to use consistent versions of OT I-VII - David Gerard 14:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] FSSO
The article says that the only known Flag Ship Service Organization is the Sea Org. This is incorrect. The Flag Ship Service Organization (FSSO) is a Scientology Organization located aboard the Freewinds Motorvessel.
See: http://www.scientology.org/p_jpg/world/worldeng/21/fsso.htm
As an organization it is staffed my members of the Sea Org, as all Scientology Advanced Organizations are, but the terms "Flag Ship Service Organization" and "Sea Org" are not synonymous as the article implies.
It is also important to note the difference between FSO and FSSO. FSO is the Flag Ship Organization, also known as the Flag Land Base, or simply Flag, and is located in Clearwater, FL.
So, FSO = Flag = Building in Clearwater, while FSSO = Freewinds = Ship where OT8 and other courses are delivered. Both are staffed by SO members, but neither term is synonymous with the Sea Org (A Sea Org member posted at ASHO, for example, is not affiliated with either the FSO or the FSSO).
The article as it is currently written does a poor job of explaining what the FSSO really is.
Matt2053 01:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notable
Besides having no sources, the article just basically seems to be saying that there is something called OT VIII. Steve Dufour 17:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Not anymore. WillOakland (talk) 04:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Wikileaks version
The version on Wikileaks is yet another text claiming to be OT VIII. The CoS has claimed the PDF on Wikileaks is a copyright violation - it contains the common versions of OTI-VII - but I've seen nothing on whether they expressly claim the version of OTVIII as a violation. Given their earlier erroneous claiming of the Fishman version, I'd say hold off for more information. I've added to the article accordingly. - David Gerard (talk) 11:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
