Talk:Orumieh

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As long as I know majority of the population in Urmia are Azeri. The name of the province, West Azerbaijan, shows this fact. I don't know why the person who provided the content insist to show that the Kurds are majority. I believe we should provide accurate information instead of insisting on opinions without any proof.

I do not deny existance of Kurds in Urmia but I am 100% sure that the majority of the population are Azeri Turks. And Turks and Kurds live peacefully in the West Azerbaijan Province.

Thank you.

There is absolutly no doubt about that the city of Urmia is KURDISTANIAN and the majority is Kurdish. All the towns around it are Kurdish. The name "west Azerbaijan", is the most unbelieved name that the controllers (the iranian regime) has renamed all the real names of the provinces to make it "suitable" for its on. The Mahabad (Kurdistanian) Repubic in the middle of 1940s controlled all the region, which the people of the place choosed to be controlled by it and weren't forced to. This showed the REAL demographic aspects of "west Azerbaijan", which really is a part of the heart of Kurdistan. So trusting at the renamed names that the nations which occupied Kurdistan have made, is the most truthless reason to say that the place "is not Kurdish", which is the purpose of the enemies of renaming Kurdistanian names. Some examples, Mako, Nagdada, Mahabad, Khoy and all the cities around Urmia are Kurdish, so is it possible the Urmia won't be that? It's rediculous. However, the truth hurts for many, but Urmia is Kurdish, and it is an undivided part of Kurdistan. Search only at Kurdistan in google or look at maps of Kurdistan, where you find the truth. No one can change the thing that already is.

When did "anti-Muslim Assyrians" ever control Iranian Azerbaijan???

Contents

[edit] Dear Diyako

You think your turkish is better than me!!! ok, ok... then I should explain some thing about kurdish accent, if a kurd wants to pronaunce the word Saggiz, he says saggez, and saggiz means EIGHT.

I didn't ignore your rights too, I have kurd friends and I respect their cultural and political rights, but you shouldn't be so extermist. Ignoring Turk population of W.Az. doesn't help you.

In your last edit on Urmia you give this data: turks 50%, kurds 50% and 40% christian. we know that most of christians of urmia are armenians not turks nor kurds....then urmia is 140% !!!!!!

Migrants have rights as well as original settelers, but they can't change the history. in most of your articles , you claimed that W.Az cities are originally kurdish!!!

changing the facts ....Does it work? I don't think so.

what happens if kurds establish their own country? 1-Economy of kurdistan will be worse. United Iran has oil and more, but kuristan is a province with no significant mines and oil production or factories or Farmlands.

But why kurdistan economy is poor? the central government does not like to develop factories in kurdistan because of several crisis and wars happened in this area.

Please note that: All iran ppl are in poor condition. ok, there is significant difference between Isfahan and sanandaj, but kurds are not innocent in this progress. Most of them have strong desire to establish their own state, then kurdistan is an unstable area for economy.

Please send your answers to my own talk page, if you want to discuss more. --Dr.Hamed 22:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Dear Dr Hamed

Thank you for your answer.

  1. Is it srange that my turkish be better than yours?!
  2. saqez; the word Saqez here means GUM . And I should explain some thing about saqez. if you study a litle about kurdish language and its pronounciation you will see that it has the ability to pronounce many other languages for exemple Kurdish language, So I mean kurdish speakng people can pronounce the Turkish words saqiz (gum) and sekiz (eight) with no problem (maybe UNLIKE persian speakings) so the way they pronounce it as saqiz has a logic meaning beacause of many trees who produce gum in that region (around city of Saqiz).
  3. There are (and have been) enough sources to ptrove Kurds have been in thousand years in this province (area). But in fact this is your claim that is strange!
  4. About Kurdish Question I do not think so because kurds do NOT love war, blood and fighting they have been forced to defend themselves because of unjust condition and situation in which they are. In fact this is the faschist goverments and regimes of the Middle East who are not innocent not this oppressed ethnic group (as well as other ones).
  5. I see all of iranians are in poor comditions.
  6. About political topics I do not like to discuss in Wikipedia.

Thank You Diyako Talk + 23:43, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Category: Assyria

I would like to know why the category Assyria is allowed while category Kurdistan is being removed? Is there exact boundaries for Assyria? As far as I remember that's the main reason given for removing the Kurdistan category. Heja Helweda 22:59, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Assyria should be removed and replaced with Assyrian (people) Chaldean 22:05, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Russian source on the demographics

Some 15 years ago Urmia in Iran was a half-Kurdish, half-Azeri town. Now it is almost totally Kurdish [1]. Heja Helweda 00:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Presently in and around Uromiyeh over 90% of the population is Azeri, followed by a large Kurdish community, and smaller Armenian, Assyrian and Persian communities. 1 A more neutral source.

Your source Azerb.com, an Azeri source, is definitely not neutral . There are hundreds of Kurdish sources claiming the same overwhelming majority for Kurds. We need a neutral source, neither Azeri nor Kurdish.Heja Helweda 15:20, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Azeri sources should be treated just like other sources -- - K a s h Talk | email 00:43, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Neutral source provided. [2] SouthernComfort 02:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The true face of the pan-Iranians

I am utterly impressed and even more appaled by the fact those who claim to stand for the promotion and protection of Iranian values constantly pursue an anti-Aryan/Iranic/Kurdish policy in editing posts. Now it is an obvious and inevitable fact that Kurds comprise half if not the majority of the city of Urmia, yet this continues/un-ending pursuet to turn this city-on the net-into a "90% Turkic habitat". This is beyond academic honest/integrity and is thus a disgrace to the field of anthropology. What is amusing/tragicomic is that those who explicitly declare themselves to be Zoroastrians are doing their best to promote this city as Turkic and even Semitic without emphasising the grandiose population of Kurds(the true descendents of the Aryan tribes-the real Iranians). Shame upon you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.175.162 (talk • contribs)

[edit] The main problem

In the district (shahrestan) Orumiyeh, virtually all the villages are Kurdish. But the city itself at least in the last 80 year was more Azeri speaking. But since the city has grown and incorporated many of the surrounding towns and villages which are virually all Kurdish, it seems that it is hard to tell. Specially the migrations from many villages in to the towns have been significant all across Iran and Umria is no expection. The majority of villages in West Azarbaijan are indeed Kurdish, but the town Urmia historically was more Azeri. Also The Kurdish birth-rate is much higher and this has also lead the city/province to seem perhaps majority Kurdish. Although it must be emphasized that many Kurds also speak Azeri Turkish as well as Persian. So actual statistics are hard to come by for now.

--Ali doostzadeh 06:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] People

we know that urmia is an ethnically diverse city, But the majority of Urmia ppl r ethnically Azeris. I had replaced incorrect data which have no reliable reference with the correct data with cited refrences. but Mr or miss 69....(teh ip address) removed them all and wants me to explan here!!!

It's strange that he or she accepts the incorrect and uncited information as a base and does not pay attention to refrences.

Though I want to explain the problem more here:

Any one who visited Urmia knows that the majority of this city are azeri ppl. Urmia is capital of West Azerbaijan province, and the name "azerbaijan" can help u finding the truth out.

The only cited refrence which claims that "majority in urmia is now kurds" is Yuri Nabiev's article about kurds.this article is not about urmia. Nabiev only noted in a sentece that Urmia is almost totally kurdish now. Nabiev's article cannot be reliable by itself due to his ethnicity (he is a kurd originally) and u can see he's nationalist tendency in his site http://www.kurdistan.ru/ I don't mean he is not right because he is a kurd, but I think an article by a kurd is not sufficient to prove that kurds make the majority of Urmia. If u visit the city or visit other refrences (search them in www) u can simply find out the truth.

Here are some refrences that say 90% of Urmia ppl r Azeris:

http://lexicorient.com/e.o/orumiyeh.htm http://www.travel-images.com/az-uromiyeh.html http://www.irantravelingcenter.com/orumieh_rezaieh.htm.

you know Urmia,orumieh and orumiyeh are the same.--Dr.Hamed 12:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Also , Parviz Fattah (an example for urmia ppl) is an azeri and it's another reason



Dear Hamed, You said "the name "azerbaijan" can help u finding the truth out". Alas, this is a very absurd and illogical remark, for the name "azarbaijan" is a non-Turkic name that can be traced back to pagan times in ancient Persia. As for the sources you provided, they are old and hence not credible. It is the overall view that the majority of the inhabitants of the West Azerbaijan province are now Kurds. I would like to refer you to Ali Doostzadeh's aforementioned scribbles wherein he quite skillfully elaborated on the current demographics of the city. Until you come up with an up-to-date and credible source of information, I will have to resort to utilising the previous content. Also, the fact that you declare yourself to be an Azari puts you in a biased position.

PS, What in the world prompted you to delete the content about the Assyrian and Armenian inhabitants of the city? This is deemed vandalism and will not be tolerated here.

Shahram12 17:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


Dear shahram

I'll forget about all my refrences, if You provide me some reliable refrences (except Nabiev's article) which says Urmia is almost TOTALLY KURDISH NOW. you are in canada, far away urmia, but I'm here and I touch the fact. kurd population in this city is growing up but urmia is azeri populated city yet


Dear Hamed,

Let me assure you that despite my presence in Canada, I have quite an extensive knowledge about the city of Urmia, as can be implied by my previous contributions (the educational institutions, museums, hotels, etc.). Let me also add that I did not provide the link of Nabiev's essay. I only contributed by making some grammatical/spelling changes to make the overall Urmia-article look more academic. Frankly, the arguements made by both sides(Kurds and Azeris) seem unrealistic. No ethnicity constitutes more than 90% of the city.

The problem is that both Kurdish and Azeri nationalists seem to have turned Wikipedia into a battle ground by altering the facts to their own political/ideological purposes. But this goes against academic honesty. The other problem is that the Iranian Government does not seem to publish census results based on ethnicities. Hence, we are not in a position to make reliable assertions about the demographics of the city. And I, for one, cannot change the information in order to make one party content.

Nonetheless, I agree that Nabiev's article may be biased. If there's concensus we may have to remove that. Shahram12



Nothing but a Joke!

kurds are majority in urmia?!! are you joking? i live in tabriz but i travel alot to urmia and khoy(xoy), because im studing in khoy azad university where i have friends from qoshachay(miandoab) and dash maki too.kurds live in rural parts of urmia and everyone, even in sanandaj knows that azeris are in majority in urmia but kurdish nationalists likes to live in their dreams however, plus u can hardly find any kurd in xoy.maybe these kurd nationalists should see khordad protests in urmia. i doubt any of these kurds even have been to urmia, they just look at democrat party's maps and think everyone in urmia is kurd.

[edit] Write facts

I am from Urmia and I like kurdish people.But please write the facts. I invite you to Urmia and to see the facts.


The dominant language of the city is Azerbaijani (turkish) because other groups speak it at their communication with other people of the city.

I've reverted your edits because you removed a source and generally left the article with multiple grammar mistakes. Please don't remove sources in the future unless you can disprove their authenticity.

Do have any credible sources to back your claims about Azerbaijani being the dominant language? --334 12:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

also there was a research 6 years ago (2001) showed that the 85% of the samples were azeris(turks).

Offcourse today the population of kurds is increased.there is not a new research about the population of the city, but I think any new researches may show the 25%-30% for kurds with including the country(nearby places)and villages.

We do not need to prove a subject or thing that is very clear and Urmia is one of them, please do not write biased about Urmia`s population and people if you have not been in Urmia or have not seen that. --Siavash515 10:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Siavash, please don't move your edit to the top of the page. New topics are placed at the bottom of a talk page. Also, your claim that you've been to Urmia is no relevance as Wikipedia has a policy of no original research. If there was a census taken that showed 85% of the population were Azeri, show it. --334 14:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My reference

I prepared my reference.(منبع: فرهنگ جغرافیایی شهرستانهای کشور شهرستان ارومیه، انتشارات سازمان جغرافیایی نیروهای مسلح، تهران ۱۳۷۹ ص۲۳۹). This is the only research on Urmia`s groups.all other articles are unreliable because they are only estimations. --Siavash515 07:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I know that you want to show Urmia more kurdish and I know that you never been in Urmia,I recommend you to call a kurd in Urmia and ask him about the facts because the facts are very clear and we do not need discussion.

[edit] Removing data from Nabiev's Article

I deleted data from nabiev's article-urmia is totally kurdish now- because its fact and neutrality is disputed. (Nabiev is kurd, and we have many references indicating that majority of urmia people are azeris(http://lexicorient.com/e.o/orumiyeh.htm http://www.travel-images.com/az-uromiyeh.html http://www.irantravelingcenter.com/orumieh_rezaieh.htm) But I will not write anything about azeri dominance avoiding edit-wars.

[edit] Semi-protection on to calm things down

I've switched on semi-protection for this page. There is uncertainty among users about the ethnic makeup of Urmia and this is spiralling into an edit war. Many of those involved are annonymous users or those with newly created accounts. These users seem to have no regard for Wikipedia policy, neutrality or the overall aims of this project, but simply wish to represent their views to the exclusion of others here. Semi-protection stops these users from editing the article. My hope is that a few days of semi-protection will calm things down here, allow us to discuss the points that have been raised and include good points in this article. I also hope that those who are simply trying to disrupt the project will get bored and move off. — Gareth Hughes 12:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kurds in the City

I do not understand the persistent efforts by some editors to include the word nomadic Kurds, which nowadays seems like an ethnic slur directed against them. The sentence which claims that Kurds were nomads before the revolution and came to the city only after that... is not sourced. On the other hand, according to the history section, Hadbani Kurds were living in the region around 11th century. How can Kurds be recent arrivals? On the other hand I agree that the claim of the Russian reporter may not be 100% accurate, since afterall there has never been a census for ethnicities in Iran. Hence I invite the other parties to include their sources about the ethnic makeup without removing existing sources and without adding racial slurs.Heja Helweda 22:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

-Nobody, in my view, is suggesting that the Kurds migrated from a far-flung land to the centre of the city. What I was asserting was that the Kurds residing in the outskirts of the mountainous regions of Urmia, eventually mass-migrated to the city-centre, attracted by opportunities such as health-care, jobs, security, schooling, etc.. In fact, in every part of Iran, the village populations are dwindling over time by virtue of migration trends towards major city centres.

PS, You have an openly-declared political ideology. Hence, it is your edits that must be re-evaluated, not mine. Also, I have no grudge against the Kurds. If you could scroll up and read my initial comments to DrHamed, you would note that I was trying to pursue as balanced a view as possible. Regards,

Shahram12 22:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] moderate people`s subject

The word kurds is prior to azeris every where in people`s subject change their places in some places for justice.

[edit] Add other spellings of urmia

add other spellings of urmia in main page like: Orumieh,Orumyeh,Orumiyeh,orumieh,ormieh,ormia... because people use them in their searches. --Siavash515 07:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

There are eleventy billion variations in the spelling of "Urmia". The one used already is by far the most common. It's really unnecessary to have all the variations on the article page; just have them be redirects. --334 14:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing data from Nabiev's Article

the reason is mentioned in previous section by other user.

If we have the other spellings of urmia be redirects can people find this page in their searches? if your answer is no we have to add popular spellings to main page. --Siavash515 06:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Why would people use "search" first before "go"? Besides, if they use search, the top of the page will say "You searched for Orumieh", then when Orumieh is clicked, it will take you to Urmia. Really, it's just taking an extra unnecessary step. --334 13:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] No point having edith war on who is majority

There has been no census on ethnicity bases in Iran in recent decades, so all the refrences for who is got the number is baseless realy. Mehrdad 19:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Silly revert war

All right everybody, just take a moment to think how silly it is to revert the text that basically says the same thing just in different order ("Kurdish and Azeri" vs. "Azeri and kurdish"). This is really childish! Arash the Bowman 13:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


Anyone taking part in this revert war must be a child, because this is so childish! I can't believe this, who cares whose first and whose second! Sheesh! Fine, I'll just put Kurds first on some of them, and I'll put Azari first on the others. Children....just act your age!Khosrow II 21:54, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

It should just be alphabetical, therefore, Azeri before Kurd. In the opening line, the non-English names are arranged alphabetically (Persian is first since it's in Iran). --334 22:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

These users who are fighting over it wont accept that, so i just made 2 of the links starting with kurd, and the other 2 links starting with Azari.Khosrow II 22:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anon

Please do not insert POV and OR in the article. Also, saying that Kurds are rich because they are active in illegal smuggling is kind of racist.Hajji Piruz 23:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)