Talk:Oriundo

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Contents 1 Latin American? 2 Rugby 3 Perrotta and Ferrari 4 Giuseppe Rossi

[edit] Latin American?

Quote: It is typically used to indicate a sportsman born in Latin America, whose ancestors emigrated from Italy, and who then immigrates "back" to Italy.

If this is true, why are there also people from Switzerland, South Africa etc. included when it is said to be about Latin American people? Can anyone clarify this? SportsAddicted | discuss 23:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

"typically" implies "but not always". What this means is that most of the people described as "oriundo" are Latin American. It does not mean that someone might assume a South African could not be an oriundo. I hope that's clear? If not, maybe the phrasing need to be changed. jnestorius^(talk) 23:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

If something is typical, it is normal, and not special. It's what you would expect. I think the phrasing should be changed to something like "mostly" instead of "typically". SportsAddicted | discuss 00:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

"mostly" is too vague for the intended sense. I suspect you are not a native speaker of English? In any case, if the sense is liable to be misunderstood, the wording should be changed; so I have changed "typically used" to "most likely to be used". Does this make sense to you? jnestorius^(talk) 00:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right about me not being a native speaker of English and I agree just using mostly is too vague and that's mainly why I didn't change it in the first place, but questioned it here. I can live with your edit and I think it's an improvement. SportsAddicted | discuss 01:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Fine; looks like the Talk: page has done its job :) jnestorius^(talk) 01:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

When you talk about an oriundo you expect to talk about an American (USA, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Uruguay, Chile, Canada...) but the term is used also for Swiss, South Africans etc because of its meaning that is more general and not country-specific. But in talk language for an American you surely use oriundo and nothing else, for a Swiss you can also use naturalizzato or equiparato and it sounds more "strange" to call an Italian-Swiss an oriundo (you know, the term is also very Spanish-like) also if it is correct. This is the meaning of what I wrote. --necronudist 09:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how Gert Peens or Matthew Phillips for example count as oriundi. They are simply naturalizzato as they have no Italian ancestry. jnestorius^(talk) 02:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted anyone whose name is not Italian or Spanish unless I found evidence of ancestry. jnestorius^(talk) 12:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Name	Original country/countries
Benjamin de Jager	South Africa
Roland de Marigny	South Africa
Julian Gardner	Australia
Paul Griffen	New Zealand
Scott Palmer	New Zealand
Gert Peens	South Africa
Matthew Phillips	New Zealand
Kaine Robertson	New Zealand
Cristian Stoica	Romania
Rima Wakarua	New Zealand

P.S.:There's a rugby player named Marko Stanojevic who played for England U-21, Italy A and Italy Seven teams and will be soon capped for Italian national rugby team. He was born in England by Italian mother and Serbian father... I think we should add him as an English oriundo after his first cap, or maybe English/Serbian with double flag. --necronudist 13:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rugby

I have restored the rugby list, stubby though it is. I disagree with the comment that "partial lists are useless"; why else would we have {{Expand list}}? Are we to assume from that comment that the football list is complete? If so, this should be highlighted, with appropriate citation as proof. jnestorius^(talk) 21:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the football list is complete. And yes, partial lists are useless. So, let's create a List of foreign Super 10 players, it will be incomplete for years, but who cares? there's the {{Expand list}}! When you add a list, add it ALMOST complete, at least. Not 5 players out of xx (surely more than 20/30). However, do what you like. I won't revert it. --necronudist 10:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for not starting an edit war. If you feel strongly enough you could start a discusion at Wikipedia talk:Incomplete lists as I am confident others (though probably not a majority) share your views. jnestorius^(talk) 02:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No no...I'm not a rugby expert, and this isn't an important thing, simply I hate incomplete lists :-) . Let's try to improve it as you suggested. I've added some players but, as you said above, many can be wrong. Feel free to remove'em and fix the list. Unfortunately I don't know any site about rugby oriundi where to obtain a complete list with also caps. --necronudist 09:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perrotta and Ferrari

Aren't considered oriundi. You should add Gentile then. Oriundo isn't "everyone born outside Italy playin' for Italy". --82.50.16.60 10:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Perrotta, Ferrari and Gentile are fully Italians, they are not immigrants. There are several Italian people in the 1950s who were born in Libya, as they were children of Italian workers and contractors in the post-World War II period. Almost all of them successively left the country from 1969 following colonel Qadhafi's coup. Also Ferrari was a contractor's son, even if his mother was Guinean. About Perrotta, he was born to emigrant parents in England, but his family returned in Italy when he was 5. --Angelo 14:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Giuseppe Rossi

Is Giuseppe Rossi a oriundo? He is fully Italian, his parents are both Italian citizens, and he moved to Italy in his youth. I wouldn't consider him a oriundo. A possible oriundo is instead Fernando Forestieri, Argentine footballer playing for Genoa C.F.C. who was recently capped for the Italian Under-17. --Angelo 14:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Agree --necronudist 16:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)