Talk:Origin of Superman

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There were several origins before the modern ones, 1938, 1948, 1958. Though no expert I know that and that's the info I'm looking for in such an article. There should be also some comment on why the origins keep changing.


Contents

[edit] Suggestions and Comments

Mookie89, I think you've done a great job so far on improving this article. I think it is well on its way to feature article status. I do have some suggestions and comments:

  • The second paragraph sounds like the reader already knows the original Siegel/Shuster origin. A one- or two-sentence summary of that origin could provide a bit more substance for this paragraph. Something like "In this story, Superman is the infant survivor of a dying planet (Krypton) who discovers as he grows up that he has tremendous powers. When he matures, he uses his powers to aid humanity as Superman."
  • The last sentence (recently added) in the summary, "This version contains...", seems like a detail best left to the appropriate section.
  • Under Golden Age, does SM #53 acknowledge "Clark" as the mother's family (maiden) name? The reference should be specific, if so.
  • Headings "Golden Age", "Silver Age", "Bronze Age" and "Modern Age" should include dates, so that non-comic book fans will know when these "ages" occurred, without needing to refer to another article. For example, "Bronze Age" might read "Bronze Age (1970-1985)", since that is the period discussed in that section.
  • Superman: The Secret Years actually focuses on Superboy's junior year in college, and hence really begins two years after Clark leaves Smallville for college.
  • The "Alternate versions" section could use certain specific details about the non-Kryptonian origins of the Red Son and Secret Identity Supermen. See the summaries linked from this section.
  • There's no mention of the Superboy TV series. I can't remember if Superboy's origin is retold in that series.
  • I'm not sure that I'd characterize the origin in Smallville as strictly "non-traditional." Most of the characters described as meeting Clark "very early" also met Superboy "very early" in comics published from the Golden Age to the Bronze Age. See the recently revised Superboy (Kal-El) article. Also, the Kents were rejuvenated in Superboy #145, and for years afterwards, standard practice at DC was to show the Kents as younger in stories set earlier than that story.

That's all for now. Spiderboy12 (talk) 07:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback and for pitching in. I've watched a small handful of Superboy episodes online but I have not yet seen one that tells the origin. I will be adding a section on the 1988 animated series, as the backup segment "Superman Family Album," told of the Kents finding his rocket and his debut as a superhero. I have not watched The New Adventures of Superman, but the episodes listed in the article don't look like origin stories.
I'll correct the Secret Years part. I also plan to include information on "The Fabulous World of Krypton" and "Superman: The In-Between Years" within the Bronze Age section.
Other items that I have not done yet, but will:
  • Post Infinite Crisis origin and the lead-up to it.
  • 1978 Film - I want to do this right, as it is one of the most important versions, so it may be last.
  • Lois & Clark - There are only a few episodes in the first season that are important to the origin in the series. I may watch them tonight and finish that off.
  • New images that are more directly related to the origin for Lois & Clark and the 1996 animated series.

Mookie89 (talk) 06:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

There has been an attempt by someone to add original research to this and other Superman articles. In particular, Superman's origin is being tampered with, as whoever is doing this is trying to suggest (without any citations and ignoring those contrary to what they like) that it's been rolled back to MOS with only a few changes, when anyone who reads the comic knows this to be false. As Superman's current origin hasn't been written yet, we should be on the watch for any original research popping up. NotSuper (talk) 22:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Continuity

What we do know is that this new origin contains aspects of each: Post-Crisis, Birthright, Pre-Crisis, the Donner/Singer Movies, and Smallville. These are:

[edit] Post-Crisis

  • The Kents are still alive.
  • Lex is a successful billionaire/scheming genius.
  • Lex's hair receded over time, hence his baldness.
  • Pete Ross did not find out about Clark's powers until much later in life.
  • Clark first meets fellow Daily Planet staffers Lois Lane, Perry White, and Jimmy Olsen as an adult in Metropolis.
  • Lois is always trying to get the scoop on Superman and beaten to it by Clark Kent, who is shown to be assertive and vocal at times.
  • Lois Lane and Clark Kent get married.
  • Lex's first attempts to destroy Superman, including creating Bizarro. His presidency, removal from office, and his fall from LexCorp are told.
  • Clark's powers start to rise in his teens. Lana harbors a crush on him, and he reveals his secret to her.
  • Superman is killed by Doomsday and returns from the dead. While he is gone, four Supermen took his place.
  • Jimmy Olsen wears modern-day attire.

[edit] Birthright

  • Clark met Lex earlier on in Smallville, although he was not involved with causing Lex's baldness (since his hair receded).
  • Superman was a baby, not a fetus, when sent to Earth.
  • The S symbol is the House of El crest and also a symbol of hope.
  • Before he became Superman, Clark was aware of his alien heritage, although he also knew this Pre-Crisis, Superman: The Movie, etc, but not with the laptop-type device that displayed holograms.
  • In the One Year Later arc, Clark mentions traveling abroad in India and Africa, much like in Waid's depiction.
  • Pete Ross is mentioned as joined the Peace Corps, in Action Comics #850.
  • Lex Luthor is one of the world's greatest scientists and spent time in Smallville.
  • Lex is close to Clark's age.

[edit] Pre-Crisis

  • The concept of the Phantom Zone.
  • Jax-Ur, the Zoner who destroyed one of Krypton's moons, debuted for the first time Post-Infinite Crisis in Action Comics #846.
  • Krypto is now from the real Krypton, not a false version.
  • Kara Zor-El's arrival on Earth.
  • Clark helped people while in Smallville, but not in costume or as Superboy.
  • His powers began to manifest early on.
  • During his teenage years, Clark wore glasses, met Mon-El and joined the Legion of Super-Heroes as a teenager.
  • Lex Luthor is once again one of the world's greatest scientists and spent time in Smallville as a teen.
  • General Zod debuted in the Last Son arc, once again portrayed as a Kryptonian military officer with fascist beliefs.
  • Clark Kent has similar traits to the former mild-mannered versions, as shown in Action Comics #858 NotSuper (talk) 03:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Jimmy's current array of superpowers are obviously a homage to his several goofy, slapstick adventures, but this is treated more seriously, as he learns to control them, they don't last one issue, and he becomes a hero himself. Cluebert 03:51, 1 Febuary 2008 (UTC)
  • Lex Luthor is now a wanted criminal, although he was a respected businessman, politician and scientist before his fall.
  • Clark first meets Bruce Wayne (albeit only very briefly) as a kid. This is shown in Superman/Batman Secret Files 2003 (Nov 2003) in a story called "When Clark Met Bruce". Spiderboy12 (talk) 17:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Though not exactly an "origin" point, Superman's current partnership with Batman resembles his Silver/Bronze Age "World's Finest" partnership.
  • Lex Luthor now admits to living in Smallville as a teenager (unlike Birthright where he covered up all traces of ever being there), as seen in 52. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NotSuper (talk • contribs) 04:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Donner/Singer

  • Krypton's stylized, art-deco design and rendering .
  • The physical appearance of Jor-El resembling that of Marlon Brando.
  • Superman using crystals in the Fortress to contact with the essence of Jor-El.
  • Lex is cool, calculating, and generally comfortable with his baldness.
  • Jor-El jailing Zod, Ursa, and Non in the Phantom Zone.
  • The S symbol again being the House of El symbol.
  • Kal-El was born before being sent to Earth.
  • General Zod physically resembles Terrence Stamp, with the addition of the goggles and trenchcoat.
  • Ursa and Non are similar to their film counterparts, albeit with the latter much bigger and vicious.
  • Superman wears a "S" symbol upon his belt buckle, much like in Singer's film.

[edit] Smallville

  • Lex Luthor's biological father is named Lionel Luthor (rather than just being an actor, as in Birthright) and physically resembles John Glover.
  • Lex comes from a rich family from Metropolis, and he inherits LexCorp.
  • Clark did save lives in a low-profile way, but again not in costume.
  • Clark did show evident signs of his abilities at a young age (lifted a bed over his head, got lost at age six due to his super speed, etc).

I took out and added some stuff based on what can be proven. It's a good idea to list all of this, since we likely won't have the complete history for a while. I'm also adding a Smallville section. We can add new information as it becomes available. NotSuper (talk) 03:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah NotSuper, I agree this is a good idea. Also, while he does retain some of the mild-mannerisms of the earlier Pre-Crisis versions, Clark is still assertive and bold in what he does. For instance, in the opening of Superman: Last Son, when Perry White is angrily lecturing Jimmy on not getting a clear picture, Clark acutally stands up to him and defends Jimmy by explaining he risked his life to even take shots. So while he seems to be meek, shy, weak, etc, he is not "the bumbling, clumsy, goofy Clark". Also, he helps expose Lex's doings and plans through the series of articles and stories he wrote during 52. That would seem pretty bold, although he is not as outspoken or verbal as Lois. Cluebert 03:41, 1 Febuary 2008 (UTC)

In hindsight, I think the whole "mild-mannered" thing is something we need to see more of in the comics. Plus, different writers have different takes on Clark Kent. For instance, in the Johns/Donner run he's more mild-mannered than in Busiek's run. We're likely going to have to wait a while to get the full history, and when we do we'll likely have to rewrite a lot of stuff. Incidentally, I removed the "Lois and Clark first meet in Metropolis" because that's what happens in every medium (pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, movies, BR, ect) EXCEPT Smallville, thus it probably shouldn't be in the movie section. NotSuper (talk) 10:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Er...not quite. A teenage Clark Kent (both as Clark and as Superboy) first meets Lois Lane in Adventure Comics #128 (May 1948), in a story entitled "How Clark Kent Met Lois Lane". He meets her a couple times after that, too, including another "first meeting". Most of Clark's "first meetings" shown in Smallville originated in the pre-Crisis Superboy stories, including his meetings with Jimmy Olsen and Perry White (as well as future allies Oliver Queen and "Aquaboy"). In addition, Clark (both in and out of costume)first meets Bruce Wayne as a teenager pre-Crisis. So I'm reinstating that bullet, and elaborating a bit. Spiderboy12 (talk) 17:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I see. I do seem to recall those stories now that you mention them. It seemed like everyone knew each other as kids back then. NotSuper (talk) 23:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)