Talk:Organized crime

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Contents

[edit] What was in article - 2003

The following comments were in the Organized crime article:

  • explain how and why criminal organizations appear, why people join them, how government and other organizations attempt to fight them
  • explain the influences of organized crime on politics

Dori 03:30, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Legitimacy

"There are at times little distinction between 'legitimate' organizations and organized crime. For instance, corrupt businesses or non-democratic governments often bear strong resemblance to organized crime. Indeed, some have theorized that states are created from organized crime."

Not that I agree at all, but that is a good one.

"Organized crime distinguishes itself from other non-governmental organizations, through its ability to provide its own protection. A legitimate business relies on a government to enforce its contracts, while organized crime must rely only upon itself. When such institutions gain legitimacy they become governments."

Separation of powers? That's all?67.120.107.11 00:09, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Organized crime as the progenitors of government

I really need a cite for this remark:

Indeed, some have theorized that states are created from organized crime.

It seems to me that states by definition must precede the existence of crime organizations. Crime is a social construct; what makes an act criminal is the prohibition of that act by the society in which it occurs. A temple prostitute in the ancient Middle East was not a criminal, nor is a worker at a legal Nevada brothel; a seller of alcohol is not a criminal where I live, but may be in a dry county. Given that law must exist for crime to exist, and that law, in this sense, is the creature of a state, it is not possible that states evolved from organized crime. Rather, organized crime is an encroachment on the state's monopoly on the use of force.

Of course then you have to define "state" in order to define "crime." There really seems no difference between enforcement of the state and activities of organized crime. The actions of so-called democratic legal systems, which are based not on the will of the majority but rather the whims of those with law degrees, are often similar in nature to what usually gets termed organized crime: whether I pay a hitman to get revenge with a bullet, or pay a lawyer to get revenge via a judge, the result is still an attack.24.64.223.203 04:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject

[edit] Internet Crime Syndicates

Is there a cite for this? If it's been going on for a decade, it seems like it would be easier than it currently is to find information about this group. --Mrsmalkav 04:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I think the involvement of governments in orgaized crime should be mentioned

This article really opens up some of the realities of the close link btween governments and criminal activity.

The War in Afghanistan: Drugs, Money Laundering and the Banking System http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061017&articleId=3516

[edit] Clean up Criminal Organization; and merge into Organized Crime

I stumbled across the entry for criminal organization and believe that it needs to be cleaned up, written from a more neutral point of view (though I admit it's not overly opinionated either), and also requires more citations to some of the statements that are made (i.e. American political rhetoric).

The section could be merged into the organized crime wikipedia entry by elaborating on the term's usage in today's 24-hour news cycle by politicians and celebrities alike. The pop culture aspect.

I hope all that makes sense. Look forward to hearing what everyone else has to say.

-Brian (Bsheppard 11:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC))

Support: the merge is simply logic.--Giovanni Giove 14:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, merge. 12.72.30.121 20:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I support the merger. Organized crime or criminal organization. Same thing, except the former is the more weighty term. ~ Rollo44 07:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Possible missing word in second paragraph

In the sentence about gangs, I think that a word is missing between "organized" and "these". I don't know what that word would be so I haven't added it. Are there any ideas as to what that word might be, and if so, what are they? Iain marcuson 01:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I took a stab at it. The wording was really odd. ~ Rollo44 02:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish-American organized crime and naming conventions concerning ethnic organized crime articles

There is currently a debate to discuss moving the article title of Jewish-American organized crime to American Jews in organized crime. The reasoning for this move is to provide what has been refered a less offensive and accusatory title which applies to Talk:African-American organized crime and Talk:Greek-American organized crime.

One point which was brought up was the absence from a seperate Italian-American organized crime (and Irish-American organized crime regarding the Irish Mob) and the possibility of splitting the Mafia and the Irish Mob between its U.S. and international equivalants should be considered. MadMax 07:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Always amazing to see how freaky you Americans get when it comes to language :-) Jewish-american or American-jewish.. Yeah, I guess that's a REALLY important thing to discuss. Who are you afraid of offending anyway? The american-jewish MOB? If there is a thing to think about, it's why you called the jewish eastern-european mobsters of mainly polish origin "jewish mob" in the first place. Shouldn't the italian gangsters be called "catholic mob" then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.54.162 (talk) 01:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
The Jewish Mob is of Jewish origin, it doesn't necessarily has anything to do with religion. But I agree that it isn't offensive to anybody, it's factual history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.132.6.145 (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unreferenced tag removed

I removed the unreferenced tag from this article. That tag is nonsense as organized crime is non-mainstream and therefore you wouldn't find any written material about it. It's also common sense. It's kind of like slapping a unreferenced tag on a statement like "Gravity is real". Feel free to disagree, though! :) KoshVorlon
".. We are ALL Kosh..."
17:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

And put back up again. Not only does verifiablity policy dictate that all material on Wikipedia is sourced, your statement is also not true. There are for example many books about organised crime [[1]]. About your statement "gravity is real". If there are reliable sources that say 'gravity is real' then you can quote those sources, and say that gravity is real. If you can't find sources that state that gravity is real, it has no place in Wikipedia. Martijn Hoekstra 18:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
That is stupid and wrong. Not even in a scientific article you would have to prove the realness of gravity every time you mention it. No need to prove things that are common sense. But hey, why do I talk to you anyway? You're existance has not been proven to me by reliable sources yet :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.54.162 (talk) 01:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trenchcoat mafia

These guys do not belong here. They were a group of harmless youths and have not been involved to organized crime in any way. Even IF you prefer to assoiate Eric & Dylan, the killers of Columbine High School, with the "trenchcoat mafia", they would still not belong in this list, as this crime was not an organized crime as defined in the article. So, kick'em out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.54.162 (talk) 01:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IRA PIRA CIRA INLA OIRA etc

It is high time that people referencing any of the above IRAs check and research to see which one is the relevent organisation as NONE of them are the exact same entity. The IRA that I changed to Provisional IRA was one organisation that was the only legitimate army of the newly formed Irish State democratically (Sinn Fein OF THE TIME had won 70 seats out of one 105), Constitutionally (Declaration of Independance) and they did not use organised crime to get funds. Contribute properly, accurately, or not at all. Kedane (talk) 09:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)