Talk:Organizations in Deus Ex

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This article was nominated for deletion on November 4, 2005. The result of the discussion was keep.

The article Majestic 12 (Deus Ex) was merged into Organizations in Deus Ex. For the original discussion page, see Talk:Majestic 12 (Deus Ex).

Contents 1 I suggest a move . . . 2 UNATCO starting date? 3 Tags 4 UNATCO Latin Dedication Quote 5 Where are MJ12 Commando, MIB/WIB, Usual MJ12 Troop etc...? 6 Fate of Beth DuClare 7 Fair use rationale for Image:Vandenberg-X51.jpg 8 Fair use rationale for Image:NSFTerrorist.jpg

[edit] I suggest a move . . .

. . . to UNATCO, not UNATCO (Deus Ex). I mean, how many UNATCOs are there?--Codenamecuckoo 20:26, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the move was made to make it easier to refer. I say keep it. --Dynamo_ace 22:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

No, that's backwards. There's only one UNATCO; our policies on this are pretty logical. There's no reason we can't keep UNATCO (Deus Ex) as a redirect, but the main article should be at just UNATCO. In the unlikely case anyone ever creates a different UNATCO, this should be moved to a disambiguating title, but at present this is as silly as having The Beatles at The Beatles (band) (note that the latter, too, is a redirect). I'm moving this. JRM · Talk 18:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The article originally was at UNATCO, actually, with some uninformed soul performing a copy & paste move. I've repaired it. JRM · Talk 18:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UNATCO starting date?

The way the article is worded it sounds as if UNATCO has existed for years. If we watch the opening it implies UNATCO was created shortly after the terrorist strike on the Statue of Liberty.

from http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/deus_ex_script.txt:

BOB PAGE: UNATCO?

WALTON SIMONS Formed by executive order after the terrorist strike on the Statue. I have someone in place, though. I'm more concerned about Savage -- he's relocated to Vandenberg.

Given that detail we find out later in the game when the terrorist strike happens:

French Connection Found in Rubble APR - New York Recently released evidence from last year's bombing of the Statue of Liberty supports growing rumors that link the incident with the French terrorist group "Silhouette". Already members of Congress are calling for immediate cessation of diplomatic relations between the United States and France unless the responsible parties are brought to justice.

Given these two facts, we can deduce UNATCO was formed around last year in the game(2051). Is there a specific example that implies UNATCO has been around for years?

[edit] Tags

I have removed these tags (yet again) because they do not accurately describe the content of the page. It is not "all plot summery" so the plot summery tag doesn't belong. It also obviously does not "describe a work of fiction in a primarily in-universe style" as anyone who actually reads the article can see. The tags are completely bogus and don't belong here. -- Grandpafootsoldier 18:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Every single word of this article is plot or setting detail, and, while the tone is no longer in-universe, it still describes the game entirely, with no reference to the real world. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Every word is not "plot or setting detail". There is also information about the units in the game. Besides, there is nothing in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction) which says that an article can't be about a plot aspect. In any case, that tag is meant for an actual plot summary in an article that is too long (as it clearly says) it is not meant for an ENTIRE article which you think is "just plot summary".

Your claim that there is "no reference to the real world" is also wrong, as the article makes note of the slight controversy surrounding the Internet domain name used by Ion Storm for the company. But this point is also moot because WP:MOS does not require "reference to the real world" anyway. Here is the beginning section in case you don't believe me:

Out-of-universe perspective

Articles on fiction can approach their subject from two angles. In one method, articles can describe the subject matter from the perspective of the real world. This MAY include:

* the author or creator;

* the design;

* the development, both before its first appearance and over the course of the narrative;

* real-world factors that have influenced the work;

* for fictional characters in dramatic productions, the actor who portrayed the role and his or her approach to playing that character;

* its popularity among the general public;

* its sales figures (for commercial offerings);

* its reception by critics;

* a critical analysis of the subject;

* the influence of the work on later creators and their projects; and

* a summary of the plot or elements of character and exposition, treated briefly, and clearly defined as fictional.

As I said before these tags are bogus. They don't belong on this page. But, knowing you, you're just going to totally blow off everything I just said, cite the same source again as if I hadn't already pointed out the flaws in your use of it, claim that its dogma (when it's officially just a guideline anyway), and do what the f*@# you want to - as usual. I really don't know why I bother arguing with you in the first place... -- Grandpafootsoldier

By the way, how does this article satisfy WP:N? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

How does Barret Wallace satisfy WP:N? How does Terran Confederacy satisfy WP:N? If you're going to go that route than you have to be ready to question the "notability" of literally thousands of pages on this site. Furthermore, in case you didn't notice, there is a tag on WP:N at moment which questions its validity as a guideline, much less as dogma (which you seem to revere such pages as). -- Grandpafootsoldier 01:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't. Good, then, that WP:WPFF is planning to merge and clean up Barret Wallace.

I can't clean up every single article in this project simultaneously. WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS doesn't trump WP:WAF and WP:N. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't using those examples for the issues we discussed before (fiction aspect and plot summery), I obviously using it ONLY for your bogus query of "notability". Any idiot can see right through your clumsy and underhanded arguments AMIB. You have yet to post an answer to what I brought up in the first place about how you are using those tags incorrectly. Instead (as usual) you just say "f--k you" and revert my edits. -- Grandpafootsoldier 07:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not bogus. This is a subject about which no reliable publication has ever seen fit to comment. Where are the sources for the claims in this article? What is this if not just "I played the game then recapped it in detail"? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UNATCO Latin Dedication Quote

The UNATCO dedication reads: "Nihil aliud scit necessitas quam vincere" and is currently translated as: "Nothing is more needed than to conquer."

I would like to suggest an alternative translation. I feel that the more accurate translation should read: "Nothing else knows how to conquer more than necessity."

Reason being, the current quote confuses the original meaning by making "necessitas" a comparative when I believe it is the subject of the sentence (verified by "The Bantam New College Latin & English Dictionary by John C. Traupman, Ph.D.).

In addition, the phrase "Nihil aliud" is a Roman idiom meaning "nothing else", and the word "scit" used with an infinitive (i.e. "vincere") is idiomatic for "knows how to conquer."

Chryso 20:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I've changed this quote to reflect the Latin. A rewording would be "Necessitas scit nihil aliud quam vincere" which means "Necessity knows nothing other than to conquer." "Nihil aliud quam" means "nothing but" or "nothing other than." "Nihil" is an object (of "scit") in this case, not a subject to which "necessitas" is compared.

76.173.17.102 16:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where are MJ12 Commando, MIB/WIB, Usual MJ12 Troop etc...?

Where are descriptions of all these MJ12 troops, differences between SERIES P/N/L and so on? They were in the Majestic 12 article, but are lost after merger. 213.141.137.47 14:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fate of Beth DuClare

Article reads "wealthy French heiress Beth DuClare. After a brief but torrid scandal, she was assassinated by Majestic 12.", but to quote from the game, "Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage". Does this qualify as assassination? Wootery 22:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't the dissection part have been done after she was assassinated? I don't remember everything that was said about her ingame, but I'm fairly sure they actually said that she was killed by mj12. 213.89.222.216 (talk) 23:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

There is some evidence in the script (http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/deus_ex_script.txt).

The only thing I can't remember is explicit evidence that MJ12 were the assassins. —LOL (talk) 00:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Vandenberg-X51.jpg

Image:Vandenberg-X51.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:NSFTerrorist.jpg

Image:NSFTerrorist.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:39, 8 March 2008 (UTC)