Talk:Order of the Elephant

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It is requested that an image of A picture of the Order of the Elephant insignia, as described in the article be included in this article to improve its quality, if possible.

This article had its chronology/history sources verified On: Sep 24 2007 by WP Timeline Tracer

The original article was split into Order of the Dannebrog and Order of the Elephant. The following from talk:Order of the Dannebrog applies to this article.

[edit] Why?

Why they use an elephant?

The elephant was seen as a very noble animal. It was interpreted as a symbol for champions of Christianity, and as a symbol of chastity and purity. It is also a hardworking animal. [1] Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 13:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

This needs to be explained, with citation, in the article. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 12:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dacia/Dania

Denmark is Dania in Latin. But I can see that several other pages repeat the assertion that D stands for Dacia. As far as I could find Dacia is Latin for a territory in Romania. But it is possible, that a medieval dialect of Latin named Denmark Dacia, so please correct it, if I am wrong.

Rasmus (talk) 08:00, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In old Latin, Dacia can also mean Denmark. Look at Dacia (disambiguation) --Arigato1 18:44, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio?

The page seems to borrow very heavily from http://www.denmarkemb.org/chivalry.html . It does not look like the usual copyvio, though. So I thought I would ask on the page first. Do we have permission to use this text? It is marked as © Copyright 2002 Royal Danish Embassy and GlobeScope, Inc..

Rasmus (talk) 08:00, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The text mentioned above is now located at http://www.ambwashington.um.dk/en/menu/InformationaboutDenmark/Culture/DanishNationalSymbols/The+Danish+Orders+of+Chivalry/ . If I still don't get any responses, I am afraid we need to remove the text. It is a shame, since quite a few people seems to have made an effort to improve it. Rasmus (talk) 11:25, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Couldn't it be the description is the one literally given by the law or ordinance regulating the order? Then it could be mentioned as a literal citation from that official description and that would be perfectly alright.--MWAK 07:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, since those laws are probably in Danish, it would have to have been independently translated into the exact same English text. Not impossible, but highly improbable. I have written a note to User:Peter Ellis, who seem to be the original contributor. Rasmus (talk) 10:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

You're right: I had forgotten the translation would be covered by copyright also. :o)--MWAK 11:10, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello, all, especially Rasmus. I've returned from a trip to find the message to me. I can not recall where I got the detail of the original page(s) but I am someone who is a checker of copyright. So, I can only assume that there was a copy to where I got the text. Even then, I recall modifying rather than just 'lifting'. I apologise if this gets the page removed. Surely, there must be a way of making the text 'sublime' -- to edit it to make it 'rise above' the copy on the Danish Embassy page. Allow me to give some more background: My interest grew from seeing the Danish royalty wearing the curious Elephant devices on the blue ribands, during the wedding of Mary to Frederik, (she is an Australian like I am) and I went looking for detail here and found none; so, I created it. Someone please 'save' the work for me; preferably a Dane (Rasmus?) who can get better original material and detail. Thanks, Peter Ellis 18:56, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mr.

Someone who is a knight (perhaps with a very few exceptions, though this is not one of them) cannot be a "Mr." except he was preceding the knighthood. This should be revised. --Daniel C. Boyer 00:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting image

The coat of arms on the hilt of a Norwegian M/1780 cavalry officer's sword (model from 1780). Surrounded by the Order of the Dannebrog and the Order of the Elephant. On display at the Norwegian Defence Museum at Akershus Castle in Oslo.

I found this quite interesting. The Norwegian coa on it's own with the orders of the elephant and dannebrog. It lets the thoughts wander on the structure of the Oldenburg state. Is this indicative of the orders being regarded as Norwegian just as much as Danish? Or is it a sign that they were the personal "property" of the king, and not really connected to any of his countries? Inge 17:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Danish Herald of the Royal Orders in 1808..JPG Herald from Ordenskapitlet? 1808.

Otto Bache: The coronation of Christian IV (1888). Notice the tabards.

According to Salmonsens Konversationsleksikon, Christian I introduced an order of some sort and used it in both Denmark, Norway and Sweden as early as 1457 (in all likelihood connected to the Order of the Elephant).[2] See also [3] (bottom paragraph) which notes that Christian established a chapel for his order in Roskilde Cathedral in 1464. But I agree that the image is unusual. I've seen the Norwegian Lion "on its own" before, but not surrounded by the colors. My hunch would be that the orders were symbols of royal authority, so in that respect, they would be as much Norwegian as Danish. When the Order of the Elephant was introduced, Denmark and Norway had already been united for more than 50 years. When the Order of the Dannebrog was introduced, this situation had lasted for 300 years. The Oldenburg state was an collection of kingdoms, dukedoms and counties and colonies that all belonging to the same ruler, so it would make sense that the same decorations were used in both Denmark, Norway and Holstein. Danish history must be full of Holsteiners carrying the same decorations as Danes. On the other hand, the royal orders would be less widely seen in Norway given that Norway had next to no nobility (well, Danneskiold-Laurvigen and possibly a few others). If the orders operated independently of the components of the union, this would explain why we have an image of a herald wearing a tabard showing only the royal orders (an officer of arms from Ordenskapitlet). Alas, I don't know for how long Danish heralds wore tabards showing the three lions. The tabard shown here was also used by a herald during the coronation of king Christian VIII. Valentinian ^{T / C} 22:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)