Talk:Order of St. Patrick

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For British topics we generally don't abbreviate the "." after the "St". Should we move this back to the periodless version? john 22:54, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Please do so if you want. I only moved the topic to ensure that a duplication could be avoided, unfortunately some people don't check for alternatives before creating articles. Please change the article in any other way if neccessary, certainly the msg table puts the article in a more comprehensive context. Djegan 23:21. 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I know this thing has come up before on wikipedia, but I don't know anyone who uses British English or Hiberno-English who doesn't put a period after St. The last time this came up I went through a host of British and Irish newspapers to check and 70% used a period. FearÉIREANN 19:57, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Indeed; it's most... disconcerting to see "St Patrick" et al. - it looks half-finished.
James F. (talk) 11:56, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Northern Ireland?

When the order was created there was no political difference between Northern Ireland and the remaining 26 counties; is there any particular reason why peers from Northern Ireland couldn't still be admitted to the order? Is there some other order of knights they're admitted to instead? Angr/talk 06:25, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it would certainly be possible, but I suppose that it is for political reasons. And they're not Peers unless they have a Peerage, which a knighthood isn't.
James F. (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah definatly political reasons, every one would get really angry, talk about the past, call each other names and then start throwing things, ah well, such is life. More seriously thought do the Welsh come under the Order of the Garter?--62.6.139.11 11:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking that. The poor Welsh don't get a 'most illustrious' order.

Yeah but we get to wear a leek in our hats, so we can't complain.--62.6.139.11 14:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect the reason why the Northern Ireland government (between 1921 and 1972) did not make nominations to the Order, or suggest its revival, was that the Order had a high ranking in the Order of Precedence. To make widespread nominations to the Order would not have paralleled the practice in Scotland, for example, where most Scottish recipients of awards do not receive the Order of the Thistle. JAJ (talk) 03:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Common knowledge in the Commonwealth?

I hate to sound like a dumb American, but it took me a bit to figure out why the Order has not received any new members. I admit freely this stems from most Americans having a very tenuous grasp on how the Commonwealth works and how Royalty ties in. I am not asking for a complete dumbing down to accommodate our ignorance, but maybe a quick reference in the opening paragraph like (and sorry in advance for the poor quality, uneducated example):

"The regular creation of knighthoods of St Patrick lasted until 1922, when most of Ireland became independent as the Irish Free State thus mandating further separation from the British Crown.

Such an explanation is just an audience thing and may not be in the best interests of the article as a whole to include.

Overall, a very interesting and well written article! I will be checking out the other links to see if I can further my education on the subject.

Thank you for reading my sadly under- educated thoughts! Thepearl 15:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)thepearl

To begin with the Republic of Ireland is not in the Commonwealth see Termination of membership. --62.6.139.11 16:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] titles of honour

Attempting to take the two sections above as one (i am not an expert but can perhaps offer an explaination); the Constitution of the Irish Free State, Article 5, states;

No title of honour in respect of any services rendered in or in relation to the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) may be conferred on any citizen of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) except with the approval or upon the advice of the Executive Council of the State.

This was the basic law of the state from 1922 to 1937 and the Constitution of Ireland essentially restated it in similar terms in 1937. Essentially since 1922 it has always being the policy (of the Irish government and law) that an Irish citizen may not recieve a title of honour from the state, and may only recieve a title of honour from another country with the prior approval of the government. The order largely when into abeyance in 1922. The Encyclopaedia of Ireland states that in 1927 the Attorney-General of the Irish Free State determined that the order was purely a matter for the Irish government to determine entry to, as an Irish order, and whilst the British government did not agree with this determination no success at reviving it occured after. Djegan 20:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Meet it's maker"

This wave of recent vandalism makes it tempting to even step things up to protect for the day. -- Zanimum 19:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is the meeting its maker vandalism slipping by the semi protect? New accounts can't edit with semi-protect. It is usually discouraged to fully protected a featured page because the page receives a lot of improvement during its time on the Main Page.--Adam (talk) 20:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A shared order of knighthood.

The Netherlands and Luxemburg share an order of knighthood! The Order of the Golden Lion of Nassau has since 1905 been the senior order of merit in Luxemburg and a house-order in the Netherlands. It has two grand-masters. It shows that sharing an order is possible! Will the Order of St. Patrick be restored as a shared decoration ? I hope so. Robert Prummel 18:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why this wrong colour of the ribbon? I nominate this single picture for removal

In the first illustration it is suggested that the ribbin is violet! But it was not, it was sky blue. It is an excellent article but I nominate this single picture for removal. Robert Prummel 02:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, although the statutes refer to 'celestial blue' or sky blue the precise shade of blue varied over the years (the same is true for the Order of the Garter). This can in fact be seen from different shades of blue shown in the images in the article. Also the colour of the images on your screen depends on the settings of your monitor - to me the ribbon in the first image looks blue. I suppose there is also the issue of whether the colour of the ink used has faded over time - that first image is from a book which is 150 years old. I think the image is fine to stay where it is. I've changed the caption slightlyDr pda 16:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I have studied thepictures in Peter Galloways "The most Illustrious Order"(great book!) and read the text again. There is talk of "shades of blue" and all pictures show light-blue/sky-blue ribbons.

To me the illustration in Wikipedia looks perfectly purple! The insignia on the other hand are correct... I can live with the presentcaption though. Greetings from the Netherlands, Robert Prummel 16:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The other Order of St. P

In 1780 a Dublin drinking club was set up using the same name; I can't say how long it lasted, for several decades anyway. Its members were mostly liberal lawyers. Its most eminent member was John Philpot Curran.Red Hurley 21:08, 31 August 2007 (UTC)