Talk:Order of Saint Lazarus

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[edit] Anonymous

Our most recent anonymous contributor has removed all sides of the story but his own. This is not appropriate. Until all viewpoints are included in the article, its accuracy is disputed and it must be labelled as a slanted, one-sided history. - Nunh-huh 03:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I'm Cornelis of the french-speaking wikipedia. I think your anonymous is the same who tried to rewrite the article fr:Ordre de Saint-Lazare in the french-speaking wikipedia. His modifications are mainly made of a copyvio from a PDF edited by the so-called "order of Saint-Lazarus". Beware, he's kind of stubborn. Cornelis
The author of the latest version represents a dissident and illegitimate group that was formed in 2004 out of the modern Order of Saint Lazarus. A summary of the events that gave rise to their rebellion is posted on the official website of the Order here:
http://www.st-lazarus.net/pariso/toronto2004/facts_events_frame.htm
In 2004, one of the leaders of this dissident group, whose PoV is promulgated here and elsewhere on the web, initiated judicial proceedings against an Officer of the Order of Saint Lazarus in a Swiss court. This action sought to confiscate from the Order of Saint Lazarus various documents and articles of historic and administrative importance to the modern organization. In its decision, the Court rejected the action, confirming our position as the legitimate Order of Saint Lazarus. Grncrx 21:15 20 January 2006 UTC

A contributor, a member of the group engaged in active rebellion against the modern Order of Saint Lazarus has now removed the controversy of neutrality banner that was placed on the article some time ago by a third party. A similar banner on the French language version of this article was also removed by the same anonymous contributer whose only identity on French and English wiki is an IP address, 83.3.10.17, which apparently originates from an ISP located in Poland.

This action is typical of the rather "stubborn" (as Cornelis politely mentions above) behavious of the dissident faction that broke off from the main group a couple of years ago.

My wish is to see a fair and unbiased article published in all language versions; a brief summary article that would include a section of links to legitimate historical sites for those who seek further detail. Grncrx 00:05 22 January 2006 UTC

[edit] Order of St. Lazarus dispute

The real question is if the Order in question is a LEGITIMATE body. There are at least a half-dozen 'Orders of St.John of Jerusalem' in Europe descended from the Crusader Hospitaller order. There are (I think) three 'Orders of the Golden Fleece' (Spain, Belgium and Austria) descended from the Holy Roman Empire order of the same name.

It is considered legitimate if the Order is recognized by a fons honorem (fount of honor, or Patron), typically a noble family or a national government.

The disputed page content should be totally banned only...

  • If the Order in question has a false pedigree and is pretending to be a real knightly Order. This would include organizations posing as a legitimate fons honorem, promising a knighthood in exchange for a fee or donation. Since higher office or knighthoods in an Order are typically granted asa reward for service, such claims are typically fraudulent.
  • If the Order in question is a false charity that has been proven to be found in violation of the charity or religious organization laws of a country or has been convicted for fraud or larceny by a civil or criminal court.

It should have a citing on a disambiguation page...

  • If the Order in question is a legitimate organization or charity descended from the original Order.
  • If it is a charity organization that just uses the same saint's name. England's 'Knights of St.John' and the 'St.John's Ambulance' are different, yet legitimate, charity organizations. Both have been disputed as being illegitimate by the knightly Orders of St.John but are chartered charities.

If the claims made by the poster of the organization's charity works or fund raising is proven to be exaggerated or erroneous, then he must be warned to be able to back up his citings with facts. Dissenters and detractors must be able to do the same. 71.243.121.137



There are in fact five genuine Orders of St. John: the original, still exclusively Catholic Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the British Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John, and the Johanniter orders in Germany, The Netherlands, and Sweden. The other groups using some version of "Order of St. John" are not in reality Orders of Chivalry, and have no genuine connection to the original crusader Order. Most are set up primarily to lighten their member's pocketbooks.

The fakes are fond of attempting to belittle the genuine Orders.

Also, the British Order of St. John and St. John Ambulance are connected; St. John Ambulance is a project of the Order.

The groups known as "Orders of St. Lazarus" are also not genuine Orders of Chivalry. To be an Order of Chivalry in reality a group must be headed up by a Head of State, and be recognized as an Order in the country in which its headquarters is located. The Lazarus groups have heavily recruited dignataries in recent years, and have attempted to recruit royal members, both apparently in order to boost their status, but they have no provable connection to the Crusader Order, and actually date no earlier than the early 20th century.

See: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/lazarus.htm for an extensive discussion of the present day Lazarus groups, and an evaluation of their "self-styled" status. 66.156.107.108



1. "The groups known as "Orders of St. Lazarus" are also not genuine Orders of Chivalry. To be an Order of Chivalry in reality a group must be headed up by a Head of State, and be recognized as an Order in the country in which its headquarters is located." - The headquater of the Order is Madrit. In 1946, 1948, and by king Juan Carlos in 1980 St. Lazarus Order was RECOGNIZED as an GENUINE CHIVALRIC BODY. Juan Carlos was awarded by Grand Collar of the Order. Primat of Spain is Spirital Prior of the Spanish Grand Priory. According to the so called Obedience of Orleans, this part of the Order is under the protection of Henry VII - orleanist pretender. Juan Carlos has posses fons honorum, it is possibly Henry VII d'Orleans too.

2. "The Lazarus groups have heavily recruited dignataries in recent years, and have attempted to recruit royal members, both apparently in order to boost their status, but they have no provable connection to the Crusader Order, and actually date no earlier than the early 20th century". - How do you know it from? Did you see it on your eyes, or you had dream about that? - The history 1840-1930 is confirmed by canonical Patriarchs of Patriarchate of Jerusalem Melchite Rite, Catholic - that times General-Administrators of The Order. Do you suggest that catholic priest, in rang of Patriarch is devily LIER?

3. Site http://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/lazarus.htm is private invention, not authorized for example by State.

4. So the Order exists as an institution in pleno jure, founded as a subject of canon law with the office of Grand Master elected from 1265. Authorization to wear the Order has been given to Spanish, Croatian, Hungarian, Australian, Austrian, RSA, Mexican, United States, Polish, Swedish, Norge, Dominicanish, Brazilian citizens by the competent authorities of those states. The Order was recognized also by European Commision.

5. In canon law the order could not be suppressed by state goverment, even revolutionary, even French and marxist or maoist for example. The Order St. Lazarus WAS NOT suppressed by canon law. Thats all.

(Wald)- 3rd February 2006



1. If the King of Spain has any connection at all to the "Order of St. Lazarus" the connection is that insignia was mailed to his address, which is the common method used by these groups to claim celebrity members. Even in the highly unlikely event that he was an active member of one of the several factions, their status would still not be helped, because the King of Spain is not the Grand Master or Royal Head of any of the factions.

2. The Holy See and the French Legion of Honour have repeatedly issued statements that they do not recognize the "Lazarus" groups. Members of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta are not allowed to join. 66.156.107.108



  • Ad.1 - Even in the highly unlikely event that he was an active member of one of the several factions, their status would still not be helped, because the King of Spain is not the Grand Master or Royal Head of any of the factions - The Order of Saint LAzarus is not what you thing it is. Is not an dynastuic order. It is knihtly order, self-government from 1265. The status we can pararel to that what is Bailwick of Utrecht of Teutonic Knights and four ancient military Order uander the protection of Crown of Spain, but never belonged to the Crown or Sate. Order of Saint LAzarus is not an Stae DEcoration it is religious knightly order. TDo not compare the State Law of your (even great country) to the institution out of jurisdiction of your country. Your country can only recognize, or not the institution. Thats all what your country can do, nothing more. Only jurisdiction over the order is Holly See, but only under eclesiastical members, there is impossible that Pope has power of law on chefs of soverign states (this statement was judged by Sacra Rota in 1959). Of course the power of law on other denoominations priests have their owns religious leaders.

So, the Order in the Kingdom of Spain has recognition by: Goverment of Spain, Decret by 9 May 1940 publicated in State Bulletin of Decrets n°. 131 from 10/05/1940 pag. 3177 and 3178; next (Art. 22 and 25) approved by Decret from 8 March 1946; next awarded by King Juan Carlos in honour of royal investiture in to Lazarus Order by recognition the Saint Lazarus Order's Grand Priory of Spain as "Ordini di Stato Spagnoli" by Decret from 4 August 1980; So the King of Spain is not an grand master of military orders of Alcatra and Calatrava for exaple, His son Philipe is Grand Master. Prince Philipe of Spain become a member of Saint Lazarus Order at the investiture in 1995 celebred by late Duke Francisco de Borbon of Seville. Why the infant do it? Otto von Habsburg is not a souvereign reigning, but his son is grand master of Golden Fleece Order. Are also denied it?

  • Ad.2 - The Legion of Honour is revolutionary and anti-catholic founded institution in French. What is the Republic of France, only one country, even great French want they are not rulers of all Europe, as so as World. French law for example has nothing to do (belive me it is true even you don't it like) in other countries. For example Legion of Honour did not recognize souverign order of Malta until agreement in 1927. There was not any oficcial canonical statement of Holly See in XX century about St. Lazarus Order. In twenties and fiveties were in Osservatore Romano Daily Press articles about the St. Lazarus Order is not a body of Vatican; Vatican has only few of numerous catholic-foundend orders of knighthood (Orders of: St. Sylvester, St Gregory, Christ, and in special formula Holy Sepulchry), and it was a time of growing up false organization "self-styled" Saint Lazarus without connection to legitimate history through administration by the Patriarchate of Jerusalem in XIX c. Next years it was done a lot of documents from John Paul II, and last from Benedict XVI with Apostolic and Holly blessing to the Order of Saint Lazarus. Even at this time are two leaders of the Order, the order is one, cannonical fouded. John Paul II the Great had awarded a series of indulgences for the main times of knight’s life in the Italian Grand Priory of the Order. It was founded the Special Jubilee Medal of Saint Lazarus Order with the approbation and legitimization of using Pope's Arms in that Medal awarded by Italian Grand Priory. It is a lot of documents from Polish Episcopate of recognition and protectorate on Saint Lazarus Order in Poland. So, again show me document in which the Saint Lazarus Order is supressed by Holy See. There is a lot of cardinals and bishops involved and hardly worked in Orders live. Do more then 100 bishops, archbishops, cardinals and patriarchs not know what work they do. High Officer of the Order is Rowan Williams, Head of the Anglican Church, is He out of his mind, that He's so much involved in Saint Lazarus Order? Numerous members of Order of Malta are members of Saint Lazarus Order, mostly in USA, Italy, Poland, Spain, Austria. A lot of Order of Malta chaplains (as so as for examle Primate of Spain, Patriarch of Barcelone, Cardinals in USA and Italy (bailifs of Malta Order) are also members of St. Lazarus, and some times high officers. In Scotland, USA, Irland and Australia Grand Priors of Order of Saint Sepulcher serve also as Spiritual Priores of Saint Lazarus. Your information is not official and promoted by one fraction of Malta Order, most conservative and traditionalist. There is no existed a law power on Saint Lazarus by Order of Malta. That is other selfgoverned body. A lot of high officers of English Venerable Order of St. John are members of Saint Lazarus, even Grand Prior of Canada, and English Prelates. So, the only negative attacks at Saint Lazarus Order are from former members, and people which have not to do with their time (so pity and sad live), and only passion is discreditation their nieighbours, and for example Saint Lazarus Order. Why souvereign states are giving recognition to The Saint Lazarus Order? Why the more States given the state's authorization to wear the Order's insignia, even in diplomatic and military uniforms?

(Wald)- 4th February 2006

Since I do have many other things to do, this shall be my last posting here on the subject of the self-styled status of the "Order of St. Lazarus."

The hundreds of words typed above by a member of the "Lazarus PR Committee," the many celebrity members of certain of the factions, and even the good works done by some of the factions, do not obscure two simple facts: none of the various factions of the "Order of St. Lazarus" are headed up by a Head of State, and none have recognition by the State in which they are headquartered, so none qualify as genuine Orders of Chivalry; and the Lazarus groups pretend to an ancient origin which they cannot in truth claim.66.156.107.108

Orders of Chivalry and Religious Orders does not need by conffered by a Head of State, for example: Teutonic Order of Utrecht, Order of Avis, Order of Calatrava etc. Only state orders need be conferred by a Head of State. That is simply to understand.
Headquarter of genuine St. Lazarus Order (Duke of Seville) is Madrit, Spain (from 1930 until today). The Order in the Kingdom of Spain has recognition by:

  • Government of Spain, Decret by 9 May 1940 publicated in State Bulletin of Decrets n°. 131 from 10/05/1940 pag. 3177 and 3178; next (Art. 22 and 25) approved by Decret from 8 March 1946
  • King Juan Carlos recognition as international chivalric order with priviliges of Spain State Order under royal protectorate by Decret from 4 August 1980


If you have problem with that ask the question to Spanish Royal Court.

Please note the text following immediately below was inadvertently distorted when colour tags were removed from this discussion thread: The resulting text below is NOT mine:

[Here] is the original statement dated 6 Feb 2006 (bottom of page).

[Here] is the page containing the same statement as modified with colour print by Polish contributor ("Wald"?)

[Here] is the relevant comparison page. Grncrx 14:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


For what it is worth, here is my take on at least two viewpoints that ought to be recognized in an eventual, and hopefully more concise text for the wiki:

  • OSLJ falsely presents itself as an order of chivalry: Than we should condemn as devily lier originator of "false" history (Patriarch of Melchites), and ask to Pope to punish Him as he can not be catholic priest no moere longer (He and all His predecessors, of course). Guy Stair Sainty is of course more truthfull man than Patriarch, even catholic ones. That is not possibly, the Guy Stair Sainty is lier, of course it is sure the catholic Patriarch is lier! If Pope will not want to punish Patriarch somebody like Sainty have to to punish Him personally. After all that mentioned Sainty wrote that the history publiced by Patriarchate is false and lie, of course devilly catholic origin. My be Guy Stair Sainty should also condemn John Paul II becouse His Supreme Pontiff dare to celebrated Holly Mass for Saint Lazarus Order. But of course Pope John Paul II is only Polish, who cares about Him? Guy Stair Sainty should be chosen Pope, or Pope of all Popes with permanent call The Most Great, Prophet, and herededitary Judge on all souverigns, orders of knighthood, Sacra Rota, etc, etc. OSLJ, whatever its status, does exist in our modern times, and does do many good works around the world. In 2004, as I mentioned above, a faction, led by some former members of the modern organization, broke away from OSLJ, and eventually proclamed as their head a non-member, Charles-Philippe d'Orléans. This faction included the leaders of many of the smaller Grand Priories, but the vast majority of OSLJ members remained loyal to the organization as it has stood throughout most of the last century, respected the due diligence whereby a longstanding member, Don Francisco de Paula de Borbón y Escasany, 5th Duke of Seville, was elected as Grand-Master of the whole Order.

As a member of the PR committee of the legitimate OSLJ, I obviously have some difficulty with the claims of the rebel group, that includes many former officers of the Order from Eastern Europe, regarding the legitimacy of their leadership. . . Grncrx 00:04, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Self-styled Order?

The author of the history of this Order, with the pretended link between the original Order, now extinct, and the modern revival, has falsely claimed that I was once a member and have been expelled from this body. I have never been a member of this organization, I have never sought membership, and have never attended a function at any time. As I have written extensively on the subject, and have dismissed the pretended historical claims of the modern foundation, I suppose it is easy to try and discredit what I write by pretendeing personal bias rather than dispute the facts.

There are several different issues being discussed here, the nature of Orders, whether an Order can be independent from a state, and whether the Order of Saint Lazarus exists today other than as a “self-styled” Order invented in the early 20th century.

First, the Orders of Malta, the four Spanish Military Orders, the Constantinian Order of Saint George and the Order of Saint Stephen of Tuscany, are all legitimate religious-military Orders which are recognized by states as Orders of Chivalry, although the withdrawal of such recognition would not invalidate them. This is because they were each founded by Papal bulls that have never been repealed, and exist as subjects of canon law. In the case of the Order of Malta it has reciprocal diplomatic relations with 93 sovereign states. The four Spanish Military Orders enjoy a special status with the King as “Grand Master and Perpetual Administrator on behalf of the Holy See”. The Constantinian Order, although its grand magistery is disputed, is an independent Order sui generis governed by statutes that were last approved by the Holy See in 1919; Italian citizens who have been awarded the Order by both grand masters may be authorized to wear them by the Italian government; the senior line grand master’s awards may also be authorized by Spain, Mexico, and certain other states. The Order of Saint Stephen’s grand magistery is attached to the title of grand duke of Tuscany, whose hereditary succession is governed by the secondogeniture confirmed in the Treaty of Vienna of 1815; Italian citizens awarded the Order may be authorized to wear it by the Italian government. These Orders are each exclusively Catholic, confraternal, and religious military Orders.

The Order of Saint Maurice and Lazarus is the only surviving successor of the ancient Order of Saint Lazarus, formed by Papal Bull of 1572; it ceased to be an exclusively Catholic Order in the 19th century and its grand magistery is hereditary in the House of Savoy.

There are also the four non-Catholic Orders of Saint John, each existing legally as an Order of Chivalry in the states in which its headquarters are based; these have formed the Alliance of Orders of Saint John. They are the German Johanniter Order, recognized as such by a law of the German Federal Republic, the Most Venerable Order of Saint John of which the British sovereign is sovereign head; and the Dutch and Swedish Orders of Saint John (Johanniter Orders) of which the sovereigns of each state are protectors. The Bailiwick of Utrecht of the Teutonic Order is a Dutch royal Order whose protectorship is attached to the Dutch Crown. These all function as legally recognized Orders.

The existence of several of these Orders demonstrates that it is not necessary for an Order to be awarded by a head of state for it to be legitimate, even though several states have asserted such a precondition for recognition thereof as an Order of knighthood or chivalry. The United Kingdom is one such state that has so restricted recognition.

The Order of Saint Lazarus was originally a branch of the Order of Saint John, its particular function and the role of the leper knights led to its de facto separation in the later 12th century. It was never a substantial fighting body, however, unlike the other crusader Orders. In 1489 its magistery was combined with the grand magistery of the Order of Saint John, then based on Rhodes. Two branches failed to accept this, the Priory of Capua, whose independence was subsequently re-established and was in 1572 combined with the Order of Saint Maurice (see above); and the commandery of Boigny, which at various times in the 16th century the French Crown attempted to protect from union with the Order of Saint John. The foundation of the Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, the grant of the benefices of the Lazarite knights to this new Order and the combination of the surviving commandery at Boigny with Mount Carmel in 1608 marked the recognition by the French Crown of acceptance that the Order was governed by canon law. The Order of Saint Lazarus never had any formal legal existence outside the realm of canon law, other than the subjection of the commandery at Boigny to French law in certain respects.

The last grand master of the latter, the Count of Provence, was elected grand master by royal nomination and his election approved by the Holy See. The last appointments made in accordance with the statutes were in 1788. It is mistakenly claimed in the history that there were two separate Orders; the award of the cross of Mount Carmel following the reforms of the statutes under Louis XVI was merely a preliminary honour intended as a prelude to full membership, to encourage the students at the Ecole Militaire – it did not mean there were two separate Orders. The last knight appointed before the French revolution, the Marquis de Gouttes, died aged 103 in 1857. It is alleged that some appointments to the Order were made by Louis XVIII as grand master while in exile, but none of these were in conformity with the statutes. Following the restoration in 1814-15, all requests for admission to the Order directed to the King, now protector and no longer grand master, were rejected with the response that the Order was to be allowed to become extinct. The Crown did not want to restore the properties of the Order thereto and the Charter of 1814 prohibited institutions from discriminating on grounds of birth – which would have conflicted with the nobiliary requirements for admission. In 1824 the grand chancellor of the legion of Honour, formalized the royal decision by declaring that the Order of Our lady of Mount Carmel and Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem would be allowed to become extinct.

Contrary to assertions made by proponents of the modern revival there was no council capable of making admissions either publicly or secretly. No documentary evidence of any legal or even illegal admissions after 1815 has ever been presented. In 1831 a new law prohibited the Order from being worn. It has been claimed that in the 1840s the Melchite Patriarch became protector; no documentary evidence has ever been produced to sustain this claim, and even if he had, such protection would have been unable to give life to the Order, whose extinction in French law became final with the death of the Marquis de Gouttes in 1857 and perpetual under canon law without the possibility of revival, in 1957.

The group of persons who purported to revive the Order in 1910, and again (after this first attempt petered out) in 1927-28, had no authority whatsoever to do so. The Spanish government has never in any way recognized the “revived” body as an Order, but simply as a private association under the law of associations. HM the King of Spain has never been a member of the Order, nor has he recognized it in any royal act nor the claims of its grand masters as such. The Order’s existence as a charitable body is undoubted, but no authorization has ever been granted for its decorations to be worn by states which regulate such matters and where the Order has been based historically – i.e. France, Italy, Spain, Germany, or the United Kingdom.

The claims of HRH the Count of Paris to be Protector can have absolutely no effect, since even if he was a reigning monarch, such an act could not revive the extinct Order but merely found a new one. Neither could the Holy See revive the Order, since it is extinct in canon law, but only found a new Order. Neither the Count of Paris, as disputed claimant to the French Crown, nor the Holy See have purported to found a new Order; were the Count of Paris to attempt to do so he would surely be advised that as a French citizen he was in breach of French law.

If the Order of Saint Lazarus was honest about its history and modern origins, it would be a lot easier to concentrate on whatever charitable work it does accomplish; the nonsense of its chivalric pretensions merely serve to envelope it with a justified cloud of suspicion.

The Order will be included in Burke’s World Orders of Merit, with a full history and explanation of the controversy over the origins of the modern foundation and the disputant parts thereof, in a special section in Part VII, “Institutions”, section 4, “Orders revived by questionable authority”.

Guy Stair Sainty General Editor, Burke’s Peerage and Gentry World Orders of Knighthood and Merit (June 2006)

Whilst some of us enjoy your books, Mr.Sainty, (I found the one which you did for the Royal Family of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies regalia most interesting), this is only your opinion. David Lauder 13:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I just thought it would be appropriate to immediately remove the parenthetical reference to Guy Stair Sainty from the links section in the article, (leaving the link intact for the time being). It was added to the wiki article a month ago at 14:55 CUT on 7 January 2006 by a contributor whose IP originates in Wroclaw, Poland,. The edited link and and comments added by user 213.123.169.247, whose IP originates in the United Kingdom, are reproduced below:

* [Guy Stair Sainty's page (former member, expelled from the St. Lazarus Order, presently personally involved in discreditation of the Lazarus Order) assessing the historical claims of the order]

This is an outrageous lie, extremely defamatory and has no basis in fact. I am very happy to say that I have never had any connection whatsoever with this self-styled order, I have never even attended one of its functions, nor would I ever want to. This kind of false claim is exactly why the so-called "Order of St Lazarus," whose history is so misrepresented on this page, is held in such low regard. Guy Stair Sainty. guy@sainty.org *

Grncrx 13:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

P.S.: I think there is enough material in this talk page to write a decent article that respects wiki guidelines...Grncrx 23:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I have exchanged a couple of e-mails with Mr. Stair Sainty. As noted above, he is naturally angry about the statements put up on this wiki forum about him. So I am once again taking the liberty of editing out another falsity about him contributed above in this "talk" page by "Wald" on 4 February. I have nonetheless tried to preserve the gist of Wald's meaning in this contribution... Grncrx 14:36, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


  • I am not a member of Saint Lazarus Order. I am volontary of MSM - Maltańska Służba Medyczna. I also am historian interested in catholic-founded orders of Chivalry. The personall opinion of membership in St. LAzarus Order of Guy Stair Sainty has not confirmed by St. Lazarus officers I called this week. Than I would like to apologize of publication not confirmed information. Really sorry. However it is not a way to say for this pity reason that Guy Stair Sainty has right with his campaign against Saint Lazarus Order and honour, virtue, righteous and good name of numbers of Catholic priests in rank of Patriarch whose authenticate the historical protection of Melchite Patriarch on the Saint Lazarus Order from time 1841 (beginning of Patriarchate protections). But I prefer to be obediance of catholic patriarch and cardinals will, not a privet person in privet war against organization. It is interesting that only few persons are involved in battle against catholic Patriarchs, and Saint Lazarus Order.

So I would like to publish some words of dr Peter Bander van Dure, well-known specialist of Orders of knighthood, historian and author of famous book: Orders of Knighthood and Merit : The Pontifical, Religious and Secularised Catholic-founded Orders and their relationship to the Apostolic See / Peter Bander van Buren. - Gerrards Cross : Colin Smythe, 1995.

"With the personal encouragement of Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Macharski of Krakow, the Grand Priory of Austria, under Archduke Leopold of Austria and Dr. Heinz Peter Baron von Slatin, and their Referendary Prof. Franz Josef Federsel, had constructed the first Hospice for the terminally ill in Poland, the St. Lazarus Hospice, in Nowa Huta the American Grand Priory providing substantial financial assistance to this project.

During the Winter of 1991/92, the European Community in Brussels earmarked US$ 125,000,000.00 worth of aid for food for the starving population in Russia. Transport and distribution were to be provided by organisations chosen by the European Community. Apart from the humanitarian aspects, it is a fact that this aid programme also prevented large scale social unrest and political instability in urban centres. Of this sum the European Community allocated half to the International Red Cross, and half to the Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem.

A letter from H.I.R.H. Archduke Dr. Otto von Habsburg, signed in his capacity as a Member of the European Parliament and addressed to the Grand Hospitaller of the Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem, Dr. Hans von Leden, Grand Prior of America, testifies to the high esteem in which the Grand Hospitaller and his work are held by the European Parliament. There are several imitation orders which also use the name ‘of St Lazarus of Jerusalem’ and certain individuals who claim to belong to, or to represent, ‘The Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus’. They are at the root of much of the hostility which has been shown towards their Order, but their organisations have not demonstrated the same Spirit of Christian chivalry in this troubled world. There are at least eighteen very active imitation orders of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and the Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem, all, claiming to be the true Order of St. John of Jerusalem. All these imitation orders lay claim to chivalric privileges but show little or no inclination to take upon themselves the duties and responsibilities of true chivalry, and all of them hope to be mistaken for the genuine and legitimate Orders.

For reasons of international law, the Holy See cannot recognise any Order other than the Pontifical Orders, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the Order of the Holy Sepulchre, and those Orders granted by sovereign States with which it entertains diplomatic relations. However, the Apostolic See as represented by the Supreme Pontiff can express cognizance of the Order’s status.

The important question as to whether the criteria for recognition applied by the Holy See to Orders of Knighthood or Merit that do not form part of an honours system of sovereign States, and, decorations conferred by them, need reappraisal. The Holy See will change its practice. In the past, it has not been unknown for some Popes to organise amalgamations of Orders. In today’s terminology, such amalgamations would be considered ‘take-overs’, especially when the assets of an Order are absorbed by another. This has happened to the Order of St. Lazarus twice before: Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484) tried unsuccessfully to have the Knights absorbed into the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, but in 1573 Pope Gregory XIII amalgamated the wealthy Italian Commanderies of St.Lazarus of Jerusalem with the Order of St. Maurice of the House of Savoy. Another, similar amalgamation took place in 1608 under Pope Paul V when for political and economic reasons, he sanctioned the amalgamation of the Order’s wealthy French Commanderies with the Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel which had been founded by King Henri IV of France the year before.

The Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem was not the only Order of Knighthood to have been thus absorbed with its assets into another Order. The fate of the Knights Templars is well documented; in France many were arrested and subjected to mockeries of trials, some just murdered, and the Order’s great wealth divided up between interested parties. Having escaped such a fate, the Knights of St. Lazarus had much to be thankful for. Assets of Orders are no longer only land and castles, but the money and assets of their individual members, especially when much of it has been converted into trucks, trailers, jeeps and field kitchens for the relief of the hungry and needy in the world. In addition, an Order’s activities, and especially its reputation for efficiency in administering large charitable relief projects, are also tangible assets: indeed, in commercial terms, the good name of a company or business can be the greatest of them. Why, one must ask, did the European Community ask the Order of St. Lazarus to distribute food and other aid worth 125 million US dollars? There were several organisations besides the International Red Cross and the Order of St. Lazarus in contention to carry out this enormous task, and I am sure that the Commissioners of the European Community who are responsible for allocating such vast sums of money, form their judgement and decision on very sound criteria. However far-reaching such judgements and decisions have been, the criteria upon which they were based are not the criteria upon which ‘purists’, as they are styled, judge the status of chivalry.

If we ignore the splinter groups and separate, self-styled orders of St. Lazarus that abound in some countries, the question must be asked as to the juridical and chivalric status of The Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem, with special reference to the Grand Priories of America, Canada, Germany and Austria whose work is so greatly appreciated by the Supreme Pontiff and the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Members of the Roman Curia, who have expressly asked that the Order should not be denied a chivalric-hospitaller status.

Nobody can deny, regardless of the Order’s evolution, that the Military Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem is a Catholic-founded Hospitaller Order of Knighthood. The Supreme Pontiff’s cognizance of the chivalric work of the Order of Saint Lazarus on a par with the Pope’s continued cognizance of Orders of Knighthoood that have continued their loyal devotion to His Holiness and the Church in participating in the ceremonial and liturgy the Church. His Holiness has ever given any consideration to the — sometimes very remote — possibility that some of the Orders - of non-regnant dynasties may sooner or later, become once again Orders of sovereign monarchs.

The statement published in L’Osservatore Romano on 22 March lists the name ‘St. Lazarus’ among the ‘deplorable phenomenon of the appearance of alleged Orders of Knighthood originating from private initiatives and aiming at replacing the legitimate forms of chivalric awards and not approved of or recognised by the Holy See’. There have been five pontificates since 1953, and if the Catholic-founded Orders of Knighthood of some non-regnant dynasties have a specific lay apostolate, then it may indeed be necessary for the Holy See to look at the subject again and, if necessary, introduce different levels or types of cognizance, if not full recognition in international law. The hundreds of self-styled orders can find no comfort or support in the Pope’s wish to see the chivalrous work of the above-mentioned Grand Priories recognised. The self-styled Orders serve one purpose only: the vanity of men and women to enhance their appearance by decorating themselves with pieces of enamel and metal, the only value of which is what people are prepared to pay for them.

As far as the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem is concerned, the question of sovereignty, or the lack of it, is often raised by its critics. During the Crusade, in the 12th century, the city of Acre was ~ temporarily placed under the sovereignty of the Order; this protection was later shared by other Orders that had been fighting in the Crusades. However, it would make nonsense of the ideals and principles governing these Orders to justify their existence on some very short-lived temporal power they enjoyed. Only the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, (now the Sovereign Military Order of Malta) continued to exercise sovereign power in different places.

This raises another important issue: following the independence of Croatia and its recognition by many States, including the Holy See, the Croatian Government promulgated and published on 6 May 1992 in Zagreb the Projet de Décret de Reconnaissance which recognises The Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem as an Order of Knighthood legitimately active in the sovereign territory of Croatia. The Decree has four Articles, three of which grant specific privileges to the Order, the fourth states the date of ratification of the Decree and declares the intent of the Croatian Government to inform other foreign powers that the decree had been lawfully signed on behalf of the Republic of Croatia. The Republic of Hungary and South Africa have followed with similar statements recognising the Order of Saint Lazarus.

The Knights of the Italian Commanderies of the Order of St. Lazarus, amalgamated in 1573 with the Savoyan Order of St. Maurice, have continued to exist in the Savoyan dynastic Order of St. Maurice and Lazarus. Many Knights of the French and other Commanderies were strongly opposed to an amalgamation with the Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel under the protection of the King of France and refused to be absorbed by an Order that had only been founded the previous year; and they appear to have continued to exist independently. After those Knights who had been amalgamated with the Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in 1608 had lost their temporal protection with the downfall of King Charles X in 1830, many joined the Commanderies that had refused to agree to the amalgamation of 1608. After that, the Knights of St. Lazarus were governed by a Council of Officers. Eleven years later, in 1841, the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem requested the protection of the Greek Melchite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch, Maximos III Mazlûm, and petitioned he become their Spiritual Protector; he accepted, both for himself and his successors. Eastern Patriarchs, whether autonomous or in union with the Roman Church, always refer to their patriarchate or religious jurisdiction as ‘a nation’. Arab Sovereigns and Princes accord to them the status of a Head of State, though this must be seen in the light of political expediency, as an Islamic ruler cannot accord any honour to the leader of another religion. On 19 January 1928, Pope Pius XI addressed a message through the papal Secretary of State, Cardinal Gasparri, to the Marquis Française de Saint-Lazare, the President of the French Association of the Knights of St. Lazarus: ‘The Holy Father kindly accepts the filial homage.... offering in turn his best wishes for the prosperity of the Hospitallers of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem and their families, sends them all a special benediction.’ (Reference 3511/27) Whilst remaining under the spiritual protection of the Greek Melchite Catholic Patriarch, in 1935 the Chapter General of the Order elected as the new Grand Master Don Francisco de Bórbon y de la Torre, 3rd Duke of Seville.

Whilst the Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem requires that all its members are practising Christians, its statutes no longer make membership dependent upon membership of the Roman Catholic Church. As the Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II, joined by members of the College of Cardinals, has on more than one occasion invited a group of people collectively as members of the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem to his private apartments in the Vatican, has celebrated Holy Mass with them in his private chapel, and continues to encourage them to undertake charitable projects which he monitors personally, can the recognition, trust and gratitude expressed by the Supreme Pontiff to those who have been directly involved in these projects, be without significance? Is it an ipso facto recognition? We cannot ignore, regardless of who disagrees with the Holy Father’s personal wishes and judgement in this matter.

With the sole exception of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, to whom the Supreme Pontiff appoints a Cardinal Patron, and the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem, to whom the Pope appoints a Cardinal Grand Master, no other official appointments of Cardinals by the Supreme Pontiff are made, although individual Cardinals or high Prelates sometimes receive the Holy Father’s express permission to act as Spiritual Counsellors to particular Orders of Knighthood. By the same token the Apostolic See has been known to expressly ask dignitaries of the Church to withdraw from any activities within some organisations. In such cases the Supreme Pontiff, acting through the Prefect of the Apostolic Court or the Papal Secretary of State, would as a matter of principle refuse to receive in private audience representatives of an Order or organisation of which he disapproves. On 28 and 29 October 1992, members of the American, German, Austrian, and Canadian Grand Priories, with pilgrims from other jurisdictions of the Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem, under the leadership of the Order’s Grand Hospitaller and Grand Prior of America, Dr. Hans von Leden, attended the celebrations of the silver jubilee of the Patriarchate of the Order’s Spiritual Protector, His Beatitude Maximos V Hakim, in the Vatican. His Holiness Pope John Paul II made a special point of singling out and greeting the Grand Hospitaller from the tens of thousands who were present at the General Audience, and afterwards he invited Patriarch Maximos V Hakim to a special audience on the occasion of his jubilee, and Dr. Hans von Leden and the members of the Order to a private audience for the next day in the Sala Regia in the Apostolic Palace, where His Holiness spoke to every member individually, that them for the work they had done.

If we search for a fons honorum of the Order, there is no hereditary successor to a former reigning sovereign who claims the Order as a dynastic institution. The office of Grand Master is elected: it is not hereditary.

The fact that the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem has members belonging to various Christian denominations, makes it impossible to judge it solely on Catholic criteria, in spite of the fact that the Order has had a Catholic Patriarch as its Spiritual Protector since 1841, and today a number of Cardinals and high dignitaries of the Roman Curia are Spiritual Counsellors to various Grand Priories. There are two important issues raised in the previous paragraph: first, the Knights who in 1841 approached the Greek Catholic Melchite Patriarch of Antioch and asked him to take the Order under his protection, did so because they felt that under the circumstances their most logical step was to go back to the Middle East where the Order had been founded and seek spiritual protection there. Secondly, whilst the Order’s appellation ‘Hospitaller’ is self-evident by its activities, the Order defines its appellation ‘Military’ in terms that conform to fundamental principles of the Second Vatican Council. The Grand Hospitaller, Dr. Hans von Leden, said: ‘We are a Military Order because we fight for Christian Unity. Much of our work is dedicated to that aim, and we endeavour to adhere to the fundamental Christian values.’ The Order does not style itself ‘oecumenical’ because it maintains that this term and ‘oecumenism’ have changed their original meaning: they used to imply Christian Unity, but over the last few decades they have no longer made fundamental Christian values a criterion, so that ‘oecumenical’ now means ‘tolerance and coexistence between faiths of different cultures’. Whilst the Military Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem is committed to tolerance towards, and peaceful coexistence with, other faiths, it seeks to operate on strictly fundamental Christian values and principles on which the Order will not compromise."
So don't let be pushed by one way view of "soldiers" of war against Saint Lazarus Order. Remeber Saint Lazarus is not state order, but internationel brotherhood. Even in one country eg. Communist China, or muslims Iran it is not legal, that for example has full oficial recognition as an Order of Knighthood by other members of United Nation: Croatia, Hungary, Republic of South Africa, and wearing permission (even military uniforms) in numbers of other countries. In Spain is recognized as Order of Knighthood (first by decree 1940, second by royal chart in 1982. Gen. Franco, King Juan Carlos and his son Felipe accepted membership in Saint Lazarus Order. In Austria and Spain The Order (Grand Priories) is a part of canon law, and is appointed and is placed among the eclesiatical orders. In this way This Order do not need recocnition of for example: Communist China, muslims Iran, Supreme Aiatollah, etc., even the Guy Stair Sainty personally oracle's acceptation. (Until twenties the SMOM was not even recognized by Republic of France - for next example, but was recognized by other countries, so had had been legal status)

(Wald) 17:55 14 February 2006 (UTC)

  • In our european civilization that is at least common acceptance for Roman Law course. In Roman Law before judgment of guilt is denoted, Suspicious is unguilty. To be suspicious is needed special crime procedures prepare by legal (for example state public) prosecutor. In a case of Guy Stair Sainty versus St. Lazarus Lazarus Order we can say at this moment it is kind of slandery. There is any confirmated proofs of Guy Stair Sainty claiming that Saint Lazarus history is false. There was any official judgment proceed on this thesis. If we like to reapeting Sainty slanderies, we need to wait on official, legal judgment of legal tribunal, which is competent. That is sure the competent tribunal on international, (supernational) body, even it is Order of Knighthood is not tribunal of state. If we think about civil tribunal we should look at least to United Nations, but the Order of Chivalry (especially supernational) is not only a part of civil law. The Saint Lazarus Order was organized as an institution “in pleno jure”, as a subject of canon law with the office of Grand Master free elected (privillage of 1265). So it is a subject of canon law, confirmed by eclesiastical legal decrees (eg bulls) last time in XVIII century, confirming given privileges to not only to Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, but also to Saint Lazarus Order, which at this time was been united on the law of “personal union”. The eclesiastical power to confirm the existance of the Saint Lazrus Order (on the privillage of Concordat of 1516) kept king of France,. Next confirmation was done in the bull of papal legat cardinal de Vendome in XVII, next it were few papl bulls in XVIII concernig amalgamations of some properties of dissolved orders to the Order of Saint Lazarus. It were mentioned Saint Lazarus Order black on white.

Of course it is not needed to an institution be every day confirmed. The turn is when we find a statement that mentioned institution is legally (means cannonicaly) supressed. There is nothing that in the same catholic newspaper we find in 50-ties something, and in 80-ties something opposite. It is not an eclesiastical legally decree.
If the Holy See has a big problem with Saint Lazarus Order why do not give an oficiall statement taht the Order is false and self-styled, and why popes sends benedictions to Order’s Grand Masters and why John Paul II celebrated the Holly Mass for Saint Lazarus Order. Why pope had received Order’s medal of “Polish Gratitiude” founded by Grand Master Duke Francisco Borbon of Seville? Why the membership in this Order is not restricted for cardinals, bishops, patriarch or priests? Why Guy Stair Sainty want to be a High Judge on catholic melkite Patriarchs, and why the Pope is not interest in this slanderies. It is very simply to prevent good people to be involved in false organization by prevent Patriarch to protectorate this institution. Why we do not belive Patriarch, catholic one, and we thing that stubborn slanderies of couple persons is truthfull. It was problem with legal status of SMOM in 50-ties. Than the Supreme Pontiff foundend the Tribunal of Cardinals to assignation the legal status of SMOM. The problem of Saint Lazarus is problem for Tribunal of Cardinals, not private judgment of persons they do not like members of the Saint Lazarus Order. Even from a lot of years Guy Stair Sainty and his frieds in arms are involved in slandering Saint Lazarus Order there was no statemet from Roman Curia about this, but there were a lot of cognizances and friedly works doing together cardinals, bishops serving as oficcers of Saint Lazarus Order.
The Wikipedia is not an tribune of personally wars. If we want to publish that Saint Lazarus Order is not an Knightly Order than we need to have an legal actuall statement of legal court. There is no possibly that Communist China statment of Taiwan is: not exist, could be published in Wiki. There is some countries, souverign that recognize Taiwan. If some countries as Croatia, Hungary, South Africa, Spain recognized oficially in fully “pleno jure” the Saint Lazarus Orderas an chivalric institution that is right. Nobody will judge the souverign country, even Guy Stair Sainty. If some Conferences of Bishops placed The Saint Lazarus Order among the canonical eclesiatical and knightly orders as in Austria and Spain only Sacra Rota or Supreme Pontiff can judge them, not Guy Stair Sainty.
(Wald)

I see that another edit war threatens to erupt on this article, this time between another anonymous contributor from Poland, ("Wald"?) and Ordrestjean. Just to put in my two bits: it seems obvious to me that the Order does still exist; however, there is obvious controversy as to its current legitimacy. Most of the controversy seems to revolve around the question of its extinction circa 1830, along with the French monarchical regime. As I have noted above, another controversy is playing itself out in the "real world", on various media and judicial fronts, regarding the legitimacy of the usurpation of the Order's name by French Orleanist pretenders. Contributors to this article may be well advised to take heed of a recent decision of the Wiki arbitration committee that passed unanimously on 17 February 2006. Obviously this guideline permits me to remain on the sidelines of this time consuming polemic, since I have identified myself as a member of the Order as it stands, for better and for worse, in the modern world. Grncrx 13:32, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Defence article

Francis Elphinstone wrote an excellent article in defence of the present Order entitled The Opponents of St Lazarus which appeared in The Armorial, vol.III, no.4, November 1962, Edinburgh. David Lauder 13:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Order and Revival (Modern "Order")

Perhaps this page should be divided between the two entities so at least the historical order will not be the subject of an ongoing edit war. Russophile2 02:05, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


Perhaps

I agree with split, for NPOV I suggest new names as "Order of St. Lazarus till Revolution" and "..after Revolution". This divide undoubtful medieval and pre - Revolutionary Order and new era.Yopie 21:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

There should be a page proviving an overview of the Order of St Lazarus, perhaps explining right at the beginning that the Order is contentious, and has been riven by dissention - which was ended as recently as 12 October 2006. I note however that the list of grand masters is misleading in including Charles-Philippe d'Orléans, duc d'Anjou, who is only recognised by a recent schismatic splinter group.Ncox 16:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This order within Canada

Just to point out that although this "Order" is not allowed to be worn alongside legitimate Canadian Orders and decorations, it occasionally is anyway in the presence of the Leutenant-Governor of British Columbia (who may or may not herself me a "member). See this page [1] Dowew 17:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Found a booklet about it

Folks,

I found a booklet from the 1940s, from my great-grandfather, about the order. He was the representative of the order in Brazil. In the booklet there is a list of members of the order (from that time, and previous members). Thing is, I am moving now but as soon as I settle down, I will pass on some details. --Pinnecco 00:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Lazarus Alliance

I have noticed some discussion that seems to imply contentions between the various leaderships of the Order of saint Lazarus. With that said I have seen no mention of the St. Lazarus alliance. In 2004 The Maltese obedience under Vicar General Reginald Attard, the Paris obedience under Prince Charles Philippe of Orleans, and the obedience of the United Grand Priories all signed a treatise of mutual recognition. In Nov. 2005 the United Grand Priories and the Malta Obedience further augmented their mutual recognition by signing another alliance convention agreement. Talk of divisions and false ‘splinter groups’ seems a little out of context. I hope to make addition to the official article at some point when I am provided more time if it is not already done.

More should be done in representing the ‘controversy’ of the order within the context of the actual article. As this seems especially appropriate and given to circumstance. The depth of which is barely touched.

As for legitimacy, that is in the eye of the beholder. By wish of John Paul the second, the order of St. Lazarus deserved special recognition as a chivalrous order. There is ample evidence to support legal recognition of the Order of St. Lazarus within certain Jurisdictions. There is an academic debate of legitimacy that exists here which is highly subjective. Some notable detractors of the order have left plenty of contradictory statements in regards toward personal views of what constitutes legitimacy and respectability. It can also be stated that de jure chivalric designation can befall un-chivalrous individual and organizations. For practical purposes the Order of St. Lazarus is an order of chivalry and it’s chivalric actions have earned it that respect by many in positions of dignity. It is within probability that the Order of Saint Lazarus within some jurisdictions has ample evidence to bring about severe punitive damages in libel actions. The ultimate verdict for Lazarus is a matter of divine will. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Excommunication (talk • contribs) 05:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

  • Aside from praising the good works of St Lazarus, Pope John Paul II never accorded them any status as a chivalric order, and Lazarus remains unrecognized by the Holy See. The new Pope has not even noted their beneficence in any Papal Circulars. The text above is without merit. Jon Jonasson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon Jonasson (talk • contribs) 20:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opponents

Whilst I understand that, for slightly obscure reasons, St Lazarus has its opponents (one wonders what would happen if other Orders fell into abeyance and were resurrected in a spiritual sense) I think that to cite personal websites of known campaigning opponents of the Order, such as François R. Velde (Heraldica.org), which clearly states "the opinions are mine", and thus taking as fact his dressed up comments can hardly be considered acceptable as an academic or even a credible source, unless contentious statements therein carry a checkable outside source. David Lauder 08:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Would these satisfy you, from .

L’Osservatore Romano of 14-15 December 1970, number 289 p. 2: “Clarification. The Secretariat of State, following frequent enquiries regarding the validity of ‘honours and distinction’ granted by Bodies styling themselves ‘Chivalric Orders’ considers it opportune to renew the definitions contained in the Communication issued on the 9th April 1970. Following a solemn investiture of new Knights of the Chivalric Order of ‘St. Bridget of Sweden’ carried out recently in a Parish Church in Rome, several inquiries have reached us for information regarding the attitude of the Holy See vis-à-vis Chivalric Orders bearing the Sacred Dedication of Names of Saints. We are now in a position to confirm what had already been published on the subject in our paper; viz: The Holy See, besides its own Chivalric Orders, recognised by International Law, considers as Catholic Orders - and adopts as same - only the following two Chivalric Orders, viz: The Sovereign Military Order of St. John of Jerusalem, known as the Order of Malta, and the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem. All the other Orders, whether newly instituted or made to derive from the Medieval Orders, as, for example, the above mentioned ‘Order of St. Bridget’, that of ‘Our Lady of Bethlehem’ and of ‘St. John of Acre’, etc. are not recognised by the Holy See, as the Holy See is not in a position to guarantee their historical and juridical legitimacy, their scope and their organisational systems”.

See the Holy See’s clarification concerning ‘The Sovereign Military Order of St. John of Jerusalem’ in L’Osservatore Romano of 1st December 1976: ‘. . . Enquiries have been received from various parties asking for further information regarding The Sovereign Military Order of St. John of Jerusalem and in particular regarding how the Holy See looks on this Order. ‘We are authorised to repeat the clarifications previously published in L’Osservatore Romano. The Holy See, in addition to its own equestrian Orders recognises only two Orders of Knighthood: The Sovereign Military Order of St. John of Jerusalem and the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem. No other Order, whether it be newly instituted or derived from a medieval Order having the same name, enjoys such recognition, as the Holy See is not in a position to guarantee their historical and juridical legitimacy, their scope and their organizational systems. This is also the case regarding the above mentioned Sovereign Order of St. John of Jerusalem which assumes, in an almost identical form and in such a way as to cause ambiguity, the name of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.”

L’Osservatore Romano of 15-16 April 1935: “For some time there has been intense activity to revive and introduce in Italy the Military Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus, Boigny branch, with both offers of honours of the Order for knights and dames, and with articles aimed at supporting the existence of the Order as a French branch of the ancient Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem, the Italian branch of which was joined to the Order of Saint Maurice in 1572. As the Order of Saint Lazarus of Boigny is not only not recognised in Italy but was also definitively abolished, at least since 1608, by Pope Paul V and by King Henry IV, the above mentioned activity is to be considered illegal and therefore, necessary instructions have been given that the activity be stopped and, where necessary, legal action be taken against those responsible.

We have on many occasions noted the increase of pseudo-Orders of Chivalry, both in Italy and elsewhere. Whatever their denomination of these soi-disant Orders (St. George of Miolans or of Belgium, St. Mary of Nazareth, St. Mary of Bethlehem, St. Lazarus, and others), they are always revivals of ancient Orders of Chivalry, which are completely extinct, by private individuals who carry out intense activity which act on the good faith of those who are unable to judge these initiatives which completely lack any legality.

The phenomenon is even more serious considering that these initiatives, which are cleverly placed under historical religious institutions, are seen by most people, not as private bodies, which they in fact are, by as coming under aegis of the Church and the Holy See.

It is not generally known that ancient Orders of Chivalry were real religious Orders, coming, as other religious Orders, under Ecclesiastical Authority, Orders which consisted of professed members who emitted sacred vows as laid down by Rules and who enjoyed the ecclesiastical benefices with which they were invested. Yet these ancient Orders have nothing in common, except for their title (when this has been preserved) with modern Equestrian decorations which, as they have undergone a complete juridical revision, exist because a Sovereign of Head of State, within the limits of their jurisdictions, has legitimised them.

The Order of St. Lazarus has none of all this. For the Holy See no such Order under such a denomination has existed canonically for centuries. The Holy See had, in fact, abolished the Order and incorporated it in the Order of St. John (the present Order of Malta) in the 15th Century, then in the 16th century, after a temporary partial resurrection, it was abolished as a body and incorporated in the Order of St. Maurice (1572), thus forming the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus.

Because of the then fierce political situation in France, despite the definitive rulings of the Holy See, the Priory of Boigny, with relative ecclesiastical benefices, was able to survive exclusively through royal and civil decrees. As can be seen, it was everything but canonical and regular for a religious, albeit chivalrous, Order…! However, in order to eliminate the continual difficulties arising from the order, the king of France, Henry IV, in 1608 obtained from the Pontiff Paul V recognition of the new Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, and attributed this new Order with the property, houses and people who, in his realms, had belonged to the Order of St. Lazarus. Thus, in France, until the revolution, there existed an Order of Chivalry called of Our Lady of Mount Carmel and of St. Lazarus, while for the Holy See and the Roman Curia it was simply the Order of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. Everyone will see on what shaky ground the house of the purported Order of St. Lazarus, the subject of the above mentioned communication, was built, and how the titles of knight, commander (for lay members) and monsignor (for ecclesiastical members) completely lack any foundation or reality in exactly the same way as other so-called Orders”.

From L’Osservatore Romano of 21 March 1952: “For some time one can observe the deplorable phenomenon of the appearance of alleged Orders of Knighthood based on private initiative and aimed at taking the place of legitimate knightly honours. As we have pointed out in the past, these self-styled Orders take their names from Orders which have really existed but have been extinct for centuries or from Orders which never got past the planning stage, and from completely false Orders with no historic precedent whatsoever.

To further confuse those who are unaware of the true history of Orders of Chivalry and their juridical condition, these private initiatives, self-styled as autonomous, are qualified by appellations, which had cause to exist in the past, or which belonged to authentic Orders, approved at the time by the Holy See.

Thus, with almost monotonous terminology, these so-called Orders describe themselves, with varying degrees, with such titles as: Sacred, Military, Equestrian, Chivalric, Constantinian, Capitular, Sovereign, Nobiliary, Religious, Celestial, Angelical, Lascaris, Imperial, Royal, Delcassian, etc.

Included in these private initiatives, which have in no way whatsoever received approval or recognition by the Holy See are the following self-styled Orders: St. Mary or Our Lady of Bethlehem; St. John of Acre, also called simply St. John Baptist; St. Thomas; St. Lazarus; St. George of Burgundy, also called of Belgium or of Miolans; St. George of Carinthia; Constantinian of St. Stephen; Constantinian Lascaris Angelical Order of the Golden Militia; the Crown of Thorns; the Lion of the Black Cross; St. Hubert of Lorraine, or of Bar; the Concord; Our Lady of Peace... (to these and similar Orders of Chivalry with the more or less international Gold, Silver and Blue Cross Associations etc., must be added, with one of other of the above mentioned appellations, those that have taken the titles: of Mercy; of St. Bridget of Sweden; of St. Rita of Cascia; of the Legion of Honour of the Immaculate; of St. George of Antioch; of St. Michael; of St. Mark; of St. Sebastian; of St. William; of the historical but extinct Order of the Temple; of the Red Eagle; of St. Cyril of Jerusalem etc.).

In order to avoid misunderstandings which are unfortunately possible, also because of the abuse of pontifical and ecclesiastical documents, once granted for religious purposes or for merely monastic Orders, and to put an end to the continuation of such abuses, causing harm for those people in good faith, we are authorised to declare that the Holy See does not recognise the value of the diplomas and insignia conferred by the above mentioned alleged Orders.”

From [2] with reasoning given at [3] Nuttah68 16:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Please excuse my ignorance but what is L’Osservatore Romano. Also, you will understand that the several International Congresses on Genealogy and Heraldry (we have just had one here in Scotland) are entirely unofficial and put together by private bodies. My interest in this subject is rather in passing: - history is important to me. Also given the considerable number of people of very good education and standing who were/are members of St. Lazarus it appears there is a gulf between what they understand and believe and their opponents, and the motives of the latter, especially as St Lazarus appears to be doing very considerable charitable work. Looking at your edits I am wondering what your interest is. David Lauder 08:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
L'Osservatore Romano is the official printed voice of the Vatican and the main source for verifying Papal declarations. The declarations above clarify that the Order of Saint Lazarus, regardless of their merit, are not recognised by the Vatican. From this arises the fact that they are not inheritors in any way of the original order. I have no interest other than I came across the article and there was a fact required I could provide. In reality, the article should probsbly be split into articles on the original order and the current movement naming itself after it. Nuttah68 16:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, and two queries: are there on-line archives of this newspaper, and is there an English language edition or is it only in Latin? Regards, David Lauder 18:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The daily edition is in Italian, with a weekly English edition. There is no online archive I'm afraid but the link in the site does include contact details of the library. Nuttah68 18:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio

I've moved the following paragraph from the article:

==The two World Wars== The order's activities halted in 1914, perhaps due World War I. Possibly, it is because Moser and an accomplice named Hans Branco were both arrested in Paris for trafficking in fake orders and decorations. Moser had apparently gone too far and started selling fake Legion of Honor medals. He was sentenced to 4 months in jail, after which he returned to Berlin, and committed suicide in 1928. The offices of the Société were searched by the police and many counterfeit diplomas, crosses and various insignia were found. This probably put a damper on the Order of Saint Lazarus. By a strange coincidence, Fritz Hahn alias Guigues de Champvaus was jailed in 1936 in Paris for illegal sale of order and decorations. [4] In June 1933, the Duke of Seville, who had fled Republican Spain, was hosted at a dinner at the Hotel Iena in Paris. To replace the publication La Science Historique, a new periodical appeared in April 1933 under the editorship of Paul Bertrand, La Vie Chevaleresque, as the official mouthpiece of the order. The new periodical chronicles the expansion of the order. In December 1935, the Duke of Seville was elected Grand-Master of the order. Presumably, the duke's royal connections (he is a member of the Spanish royal family) impresses Spanish-speaking applicants, and the order becomes linked with a number of Latin American diplomats in Paris. Otzenberger was made consul of the Dominican Republic in Mulhouse. The order's ideological slant was quite visibly inherited from Watrin's original legitimism: the Duke of Seville himself is a colonel in the fascist Falangistas. The handing out of crosses confirms the political inclination: between 1933 and 1936, the following individuals become members: Francisco Franco (dictator of Spain 1936-75), Carol II of Romania (king/dictator of Romania 1930-40), Rafael Trujillo (dictator of the Dominican Republic 1930-52), Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba 1933-44, 1952-59), Getulio Vargas (dictator of Brazil 1930-45), and a few other presidents of Latin American countries (Argentina, Peru, Honduras, Guatemala). Whether all of these distinguished gentlemen were actually aware of his membership is not quite clear: the order occasionally bestowed its cross on unsuspecting individuals, as happened to the Mexican Marquis de Guadalupe, whose protestations were obviously ignored. [5]

Without commenting on its merits in terms of neutrality etc, it appears to be a more-or-less cut-and-paste (and certainly a copyright violation) from [6]. MastCell Talk 16:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

This tirade is lifted from the Heraldica Organisation, itself a self-styled organisation (unsurprisingly) with no official status anywhere in the world, and with a secret membership list. In addition to the endless bilge against St.Lazurus it cites one of its sources as Guy Stair Sainty..........say no more?! David Lauder 17:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay, fair enough on both counts, but the fact remains that this articles is far too glowing. I would, for the sakes of neutrality, rather have some material reflect that anti group, then have the remaining article written from the vantage point of the Order itself. Especially disturbing is the near-total WWII omission, not a word about that, but of course the Order's activities to liberate Poland (there's a WWII favorite!) from "communism occupation" gets mentioned in the intro, no less. El_C 19:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit warring

An edit war seems to be raging with sometimes crass edit comments from the participants. What about using this discussion page for explaining your positions? I have already censured some of the involved parties on their user talk pages. Now I do it here. __meco (talk) 10:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Meco, if you read the talk pages, you will find that Turtus/Rawicz and puppets thereof are the problem. Turtus operates from a rotating Polish IP which cannot be blocked because it constantly generates a new IP number. The only thing which stops (his?) misguided fanatacism (see below) is constant vigilance. Ich Dien Jon Jonasson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon Jonasson (talk • contribs) 14:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Please note the previous message was signed, but with an error. Jon Jonasson (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scandal

It is scandal, that for blocking was chosen antilazarite's, falsyficated edits. Definitly uncredible and not understanded why only one, completly unpopular view is promoted by Anonymous Dissident. This is unfair WAR. If You want to block something show both different views! It is horribly unjust to bloced war on edit create by people accusing lies to Catholic Patriarche of Antioch, friend of Pope. I have lost all liking of it. I hope so, not for all Wikipedia. UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.3.134 (talk) 13:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I empathize with you completely – in principle, as I have no idea which is the reasonable version as which is the outlandish, fanatic one... Actually, when administrators intervene after a page protection has been requested on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, they rarely look into the conflict matter, but simply check to see if, for instance, as the case was here, edit warring is in progress and has been for some time. I was the editor who requested this protection since noone involved seems to be in the slightest interested in presenting the contentious issue here, on the discussion page. In previous edit conflicts where I myself have been a party, I too have been infuriated by the apparent bias by the intervening administrator. Now I know that is probably rarely the case. It's just random. You who are involved in the conflict have the responsibility and opportunity to present the issue here on this page, and as one of the parties, according to what I have picked up, is not of sound mind, surely it will be easy for the reasonable party to convince everyone reading this page about the correctness of his/her position. __meco (talk) 19:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Historic agreement concluded with the Grand Chancery of the Légion d’Honneur in France —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.105.245.134 (talk) 22:05, December 12, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agreement between The Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem and the Légion d’Honneur in France!

source:http://www.oslj.org/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=265

The Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem, represented by its 49th Grand Master, HRH Prince Charles-Philippe d’Orléans, Duc d’Anjou, has after patient negotiation reached an important formal agreement with the Grande Chancellerie de la Légion d’Honneur, which is legally responsible for the regulation of honours and distinctions in France. This agreement supersedes the conditions which were accepted by former Grand Masters for the Grand Priory of France.

For many years the Grand Master, officers and members on French territory have been obliged to call themselves simply ‘Hospitallers of Saint Lazarus’ – an honourable title but one which does not conform to historical usage and which differs from the name used in every other country where the Order is represented.

With effect from 28 September 2007, subject to conditions which provide that there will be absolutely no confusion with the pre-eminent French national distinction, the right has been restored to use in France the designation ‘Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem’ and for HRH Prince Charles-Philippe d’Orléans, Duc d’Anjou, to be known by his rightful and traditional Latin title of Magnus XLIX Magister citra et ultra maria, Præceptor Boignaci.

The French Government recognizes only the Orders and decorations of other sovereign states. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta and the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre, the two independent Orders of Chivalry recognized by the Holy See are accepted in the same way. As the Order of Saint Lazarus is, like these, an ancient, spiritual and charitable institution rather than an association conferring honorary decorations, there is no conflict with the Republic of France.

The new agreement does not imply that the Military and Hospitaller Order of Saint Lazarus of Jerusalem has been recognized by France. Rather it closes an historical gap and re-establishes a clear international identity. Indeed, the Order depends not upon any sovereign state but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ for its right and duty to conduct its traditional, charitable and spiritual activities. Independence allows the Order of Saint Lazarus to execute humanitarian missions across borders without regard to nationality, ethnicity or religion, to bring healing of body, mind and spirit to any who are in need.

All members of the Order resident in or visiting France continue to be required by law to respect and observe the Code de la Légion d'Honneur, with regard to the use of titles and insignia. Full details have been issued to all French members and are made available to visitors at any functions or on request to the Chancery of the Grand Priory of France.

The obedience exhibited by good citizens has long been cherished as a noble value and a means of spiritual perfection. As once the Knights of Saint Lazarus obeyed their temporal protector, the King of France, so now they give such respect to his successor, HRH The Count of Paris, who serves France in its contemporary historical situation. Accordingly, all members of the Order of Saint Lazarus are required, when in France, to abide fully by this agreement, not least to demonstrate that obedience and patriotism are truly noble causes which facilitate the service of the poor and the sick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.105.245.134 (talk) 22:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

  • The link in question clearly states that this is NOT recognition as an order of chivalry by the the government of France. Just another example of deceit from the Polish editor. Gobbschmacht (talk) 04:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, and in addition, this is an excerpt from an official organ of the self styled saint lazarites. It is not a valid source. Jon Jonasson (talk) 01:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hate Speech must stop

Turtus and his puppets need to be counseled about his/their hate speech. It is inappropriate for this or any other setting. The last refuge of scoundrels is calling people Nazis and Terrorists, the way he does. Christian Left (talk) 15:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Wald/Rawicz/Turtus/Trafalgar Abyss is still spreading his hatred unabated. The only defense is to counter him at every turn, since he can't be blocked. Jon Jonasson (talk) 19:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


Jon Jonasson, Christian Left and Croquen is the same pathological vandal. This person is anti-catholic and anti-Polish chauvinist, the true master of hate speach. Look at "history" section. Turtus (talk) 00:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

    • This from a vandal with more socks than can be counted. Please read the rest of the talk page for context. This vandal has been vandalizing this page for years, first as "Wald" and then as a variety of other socks. Additionally, shouldn't there be a requirement for people editing the English Wikipedia, to actually read & write English at better than a 1st grade level? Christian Left (talk) 13:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] El C's latest version

The latest 2 paragraph short version by El C is actually preferable to the long Rawicz version full of misrepresentations, exagerations, and fanciful fantasy. Jon Jonasson (talk) 01:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I just made a modest edit of "revived" to describe the modern organization. Even the staunchest supporters of St Laz should be able to accept that. Maybe this thing can rest now. Christian Left (talk) 19:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Did Rawicz have a stroke? This is the longest stretch of inactivity from this vandal and his sockpuppets I have ever seen! I hope he is well, in body, mind, and soul. God Bless, Christian Left (talk) 23:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Peace is good. Jon Jonasson (talk) 04:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)