Talk:Order of Gimghoul/Archive 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was do not merge (non-admin closure) Artichoke2020 (talk) 03:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge to List of collegiate secret societies?

The is a section Society systems in North American colleges and universities that I think it would be ideal to merge this to along with the picture of the castle. Something like:

University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

The library at the university contains the archives of the Order of Gimghoul, a secret society headquartered at the Gimghoul Castle.^[1][2] The order was founded in 1889 by Robert Worth Bingham, Shepard Bryan, William W. Davies, Edward Wray Martin, and Andrew Henry Patterson, who were students at the time.^[3]

The society is open to "notable" male students (rising juniors and higher), and faculty members by invitation. The society centers itself around the legend of Peter Dromgoole, a student who mysteriously disappeared from the UNC campus in 1833.^[4] The founders originally called themselves the Order of Dromgoole, but later changed it to the Order of Gimghoul, "in accord with midnight and graves and weirdness," according the archives.^[3]

Tradition has it that the order held to the "Dromgoole legend and the ideals of Arthurian knighthood and chivalry." From all accounts, the order is social in nature, and has no clandestine agenda. Membership and information about the Order is strictly confidential as is access to archives less than 50 years old.^[3]

Footnotes would be:

-- Artichoke2020 (talk) 18:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Object to merge. Since such a large portion of this article contains information regarding the Castle, it is more than just an article on a secret society. I have not seen a viable argument set forth that justifies such drastic change of nearly 3 years worth of improvements by the editors of this article. SuMadre (talk) 19:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
    • • But if you read the section on the castle it doesn't actually say anything concrete that couldn't be summed up in one sentence. The edit history doesn't show a great deal of change, really, so I don't think time is an issue. I think someone should be bold. Artichoke2020 (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
        • I find it odd that out of what appears to be nearly 50 entries in the list you cite - List of collegiate secret societies, the OoG has been singled out for AfD/Merge. If you compare the Gimghoul entry with most of the other articles linked from this list, you will find this one has as many if not more sources listed therein. Do you think that every other article on this list of 50 or so should be put up for AfD/Merge for the same reasons as this one? (to wit: It is not notable since a secret society, by the very definition is difficult to verify?) I believe this quite a weak argument for an entry such as Gimghoul, which is so well sourced. (Note: I have placed this comment on the AfD page as well) SuMadre (talk) 20:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
• Object - Object to merge. The subject is notable in its own right. No need to merge. Instead, add more information. Remember (talk) 21:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

• Further Comment - The time people are taking up trying to delete this article could better be used by trying to find more information to put into this article. In a two minute google book search, I've already come up with another source and information to add here [1] and if someone was industrious they could obtain the directory of the order of the gimghoul mentioned here [2]. There is no reason to delete this article or merge it. Remember (talk) 21:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If those sources an't good enough, what about this source link? Again, I found this in about 4 minutes. Could we please spend some time actually researching this before we merge it off. Remember (talk) 12:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, I have found another source in yet again a 5 minute search. See here link As stated in the source: The castle was built as a meeting place for the Order of Gimghoul, a still-existing secret society of noted UNC students and alumni. Construction began in the fall of 1924 and cost about $50,000. Although the structure is accessible from Gimghoul Road, it remains a mystery, inspiring nearly a century of folklore. "It's a mystical thing that's been part of the University for about 100 years," said Roland Giduz, a UNC alumnus and Chapel Hill resident who has researched the castle. "It's part of the heritage of the University....Giduz said Gimghouls have historically been prominent students, professors and alumni. "There was the idea that it was a very high fraternity in Chapel Hill, in terms of prestige," he said. Past members include prominent alumni J.C. Ehringhaus, William Rand Kenan Jr., Frank Porter Graham and William Donald Carmichael.

Again, can we spend more time researching this and less time trying to delete it or merge it down. There is lots of information to be found on this and I think I have shown that it is a notable organization. Remember (talk) 15:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.