Talk:Order of Canada

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  • I have added in the strange story of Conrad Black in the non-canadian's section of the article. Since he is in the order but is no longer a citizen of Canada. If anyone has a better way of putting in this data please do so User:Dowew May 17, 2005

Contents

[edit] Question

How official is this seal used? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When someone is entered into the order they recived a large framed certificate written in both english and french describing the order, its importance and symbolic meaning. That image is in the center of it. Dowew 12:31, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I also found a better picture of the Companion award: http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/collections/cmdp/images/cc-l.gif. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I found some more. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:59, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I found more at http://www.whatsupwithmen.com/order_medal.jpg and http://www.benheppner.com/images/awards/GovGenMedal.jpg. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:44, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Do you think the content from http://www.billcasselman.com/wording_room/latin_canada_motto.htm should be placed on here, in a small section or just a link? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 19:04, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ahenakew's membership

This is relevant to the main article to some degree, and it might be worth investigating: there's been a minor degree of controversy over anti-semetic remarks made by First Nations leader David Ahenakew, and his resulting trial for promoting hatred. The relevance is that Ahenakew has been a member of the Order of Canada since 1979 (see the article on Ahenakew for more), leading to many calls for him to be stripped of the honour, especially if convicted. Furthermore, several members within the Order itself have vowed to stop wearing their medals until Ahenakew's membership in the Order is removed. I think it's worth a look. TheProject 03:13, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Certainly. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:17, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Erm, oops, I somehow missed that the first time when I was reading the article, I didn't see you'd already included it. My sincere apologies. By the way, a judge is due to rule on Ahenakew's fate on June 30th. TheProject 05:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is alright. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:06, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MC Ribbon

Shouldn't it be CM Ribbon ? Is this a typo or is it ment to be like that ? Dowew 01:17, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Typo. My apologies. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 12:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Silver Jubilee Medal

All Members of the Order of Canada as of 1977 recieved the Queen Elizabeth II Silver Jubilee Medal automatically. Is there someway this article can mention this Dowew 02:23, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sure. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 12:14, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I spoke to a man at the Royal Canadian Regiment Museum today and according to him the Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal was also given automatically. I am going to edit the text according. Dowew 02:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Question about upgrades ?

I am curious, when an individual is upgraded from Member to Officer, or Officer to Companion - does that individual have to surender their previous medalion to Rideau Hall or may they keep it as an heirloom ? Dowew 22:37, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know they keep their new medal, but I do not know of anyone who was promoted from various ranks. So I do not know if they keep their old medals, but since each medal has a serial number on the back (on a small plate above CANADA), it will be hard to reuse. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 01:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Under the Constitution of the Order of Canada, when an individual is promoted from one rank to another, they must surrender their insignia from the first appointment. --64.228.42.39 04:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I think we should add an example of a rare occasion when the Order is not presented as Rideau Hall. The best one I know of is Gordon Lightfoot. The CC was presented to him shortly after he came out of a coma brought on from a life threatening abdominal hemerage in a ceremony at a Toronto Hospital .[1] [2]

Dowew 10:33, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We should. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It actually is more regularly awarded outside Rideau Hall. Clarkson has on more than one occassion held entire investiture ceremonies in Vancouver and other cities, not just in individual cases.

[edit] Calls for Removal

What process must be gone about to get an individual stripped from the Order of Canada ? How is the process initiated ? I ask because I really think Conrad Black should be removed from the Order - If not because he is no longer a Canadian the because the recent legal problems he is facing in England - A Judge Ordered him to not remove any files from Hollinger's headquarters and he was photographed the following day bringing boxes to his car !) Does anyone know the answer of should I try e-mailing Rideau Hall Dowew 03:42, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Based on what I followed from the Ahenakew case, the Order presumes innocence until proven guilty. Once the person is guilty of an offense, the Order Advisory Council will get together and make a decision. We will see in a few days about Ahenakew's status, since a judge will rule in his case. But hey, if you think Black should be removed from the Order, be my guest. I cannot send anything, due to my citizenship (American here sadly), but tampering with evidence is a felony in the States. Fraud is also a felony, and one was removed from the Order due to it. So your chances of asking for Black's removal will be a good shot. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I got an e-mail from Rideau Hall today saying that my request for information regarding Conrad Black's status has been sent to the Chancellery of Honours. Hopefully this will speed up Lord Tubby's exit. Dowew 02:19, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Boy, image the press coverage about Wikipedia if you get Black removed from the Order. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I would assume that Chancellery meets on Canada Day. As far a publicity goes, as crazy as Lord Black is he a guy I would rather not have as an enemy. well...hopefully he will just be booted soon. Honestly, it should have been done back when he surendered his citizenship in 2001. Dowew 15:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Maybe this also cause the Chancellery to add a section in the Constitution about Holders surrendering his/her citizenship. Because of it, maybe he could not loose his Order. However, his legal issues can make him lose it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 19:10, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Canadian Constitution will never been changed. see the disaster called the Meech Lake Accord for more info on this. I would think that the Order could just make their own rule as to eligability. What would be great is if Black lost his membership in the Queen's Privy Council for Canada which allows him the real peak of a diplomatic passport and the ability to live in Canada for an indefinate period of time, even though he is not a Canadian. Dowew 20:05, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Order Constitution, not the actual Canadian Constitution. Sorry. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:07, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yukon Order of the Polaris

I've been adding images to the territorial medals but I don't think the Yukon Order of the Polaris has an official site (kinda stange) . I did however find this page [3] [4] and it looks like It does not include postnominals. Dowew 02:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Could it be in working stages? Most provincial orders have not been created until recently. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:34, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I stand corrected. Some were created earlier than others. I will try to create ribbon bars pictures as soon as I can. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:04, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Levels in the Order

"Upon its creation, the Order only had Companions. On July 1, 1972, all members were made Officers and the level of Officer and Member were introduced." . according to the Canadian encyclopedia this is incorrect

"When it was created in 1967, there were 2 ranks, Companion and Medal of Service. " [5]

Dowew 02:28, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I will make the change. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:34, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I also have a question: why has the number of appointees per year different from what is presented from the official Order website? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:39, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand, do you mean the maximum number of commanions or something User:Dowew
From said website: "There are now 3 levels of membership, in which the number of appointments is limited: Companion (not to exceed 150 at any one time) for "outstanding achievement and merit of the highest degree"; Officer (46 appointments maximum in any year) for "achievement and merit of a high degree"; and Member (92 appointments maximum in any year)." On the official website of the Order: "Companion 15* (not to exceed 165 living Companions at any given time), Officer 64, Member 136, Non-Canadian (Honorary) 5; Total 220. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I see, I don't know. Pherhaps that website is old and the numbers have since been changed ? Dowew 05:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am going to stick with the official numbers from the Governor General, unless this warrants another email. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:04, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Agreed - stay with the numbers currently listed on the Rideau Hall website since that is the current best official info. My guess is they gave out the Order in great quanity and came dangerously close to the maximum number (like I suggested below). I did a search on the Torono Star Online for the year 1988 ( the year of the W&S show) but didn't find any angry editorials. - I do know around the time of the Meech Lake accord Mulroney had 6 new seats added to the Senate, if that is any indication that things were getting bigger :) Dowew 05:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I also answered your questions on my talk page. I tried to do a Google search on the Medal of Service, but nothing yet. If there are historical versions of the Order, I want to present them. I know there is one, which I need to take a clip of. This part will be introduced in the insignia section. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:10, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
K. I have added the info about multiple recipients like you suggested but it could probably use a bit of rewording. Have a great night, I am going to bed now :) Dowew 05:16, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I beat you to it. I wrote: Multiple people who have committed the same honourable act or deed are eligable to receive the Order. An example of this is the members of the Canadian band Rush been appointed Officers to the Order (Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and Neil Peart). Because of that, I removed your addition, since it was a duplication. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I just added an image of the Aga Khan with the CC to the Non-Canadian Appointments section. I was just thinking pherhaps it would be a good idea to put the years on the non-canadian appointments ? Dowew 11:00, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was looking at that Canadian Encyclopedia article again and I noticed it says "Companions may be appointed only when a vacancy occurs." - I take this to mean that at the time of the articles writing the Companion Class was full and the allotment has since been increased (although its pretty full now).
Only two more appointments can be made, unless other C.C.'s pass away. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Actually, I assume that they would have to keep two spots open for then next Governor General and his or her consort. Dowew 23:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Maybe. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 02:34, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Frquency of distribution

Is anyone Aware of any controvery in the late 80's regarding how many medallions were being distributed ? In 1988 Wayne & Shuster made their last tv special "Once Upon A Giant" in which Johnny Wayne as Lester the Jester grabs McDermitt the Hermitt who responds by yelling "Please, your bending my Order of Canada!" . I am going to try doing a serch of the Toronto Star archives for any articles on the Order Dowew 02:38, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have not, but I am sure someone would have made a note of it by now online. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Honorary Appointments

I just read the news release from 2000 about The Queen Mother getting the CC [6] and it says "Today's announcement marks the fifth honorary appointment to the Order of Canada. Past recipients include Nelson Mandela and John Kenneth Galbraith." - however Galbraith was born in Ontario ! - I assume this must be a typo of some kind. Dowew 12:44, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

more Bizarre, they did it in 1998 when Mandella got the order [7] "Today's announcement marks the fourth time since the creation of the Order of Canada that an honorary appointment has been made. Past honorary recipients are: John Kenneth Galbraith, O.C., Cambridge, Massachusetts, U.S.A., James Hillier, O.C., Princeton, New Jersey, U.S.A., and Charles Édouard Dutoit, O.C., Montréal, Quebec.". - There must be a difference between "Honorary appointment" and "Non-Canadian Appointments". Dowew 12:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

According to Charles Dutoit article, although he has lived in Montreal for 25 years, he is not a Canadian Citizen and the only "the only non-Canadian citizen to be a Grand Officer of the Ordre national du Québec. - Strange, as this would be an honouary placement as an Officer, not Companion. Dowew 12:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Then we should have a section on honourary appointments, and if a foreigner is involved, we list their nationality. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:49, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Medal of Courage

I think the Canadian Encyclopedia called the "Medal of Courage" the Medal of Service". See Cross of Valour for more info. Dowew 12:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I will make a ref/note template for that. Plus, I am putting all external links as the ref/note, as per WP:FAC requests. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:11, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Medal of Courage and the Medal of Service are different things. The Medal of Service was the original second grade of the Order of Canada (retroactively converted to Officer in 1972 when the Order was reorganized). The Medal of Courage was a component of the Order of Canada when the Order was founded in 1967. It was never awarded and was replaced by the Canadian Bravery Decorations established in 1972 (which are not part of the Order of Canada). --64.228.42.39 04:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 5000 inductions

I did a search of the Order and it came up with 5054 inductees either living or dead in all categories. I am going to change the number "4000" to "5000". Dowew 02:07, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fine by me. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 02:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Order of the British Empire

Should there be a reference to the Order of the British Empire? Before the Order of Canada wasn't this the main honour given to Canadians? See this link [8]. --YUL89YYZ 16:34, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Done. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:31, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Promotion

As of 18:09, 26 June 2006, the article was promoted to Featured status. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 02:03, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Let's get ready folks

The article is going to be Featured on the front page tomorrow for 24 hours. Good job yall and let's stop any vandals. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 4 July 2005 16:44 (UTC)

[edit] Appointments sub-section

It would seem that there isn't any criteria set aside to add people into the sample list. There is a category for a complete list Category:Members of the Order of Canada and it would seem unfair to only list a few when all are deserving to be recognized of such a prestigious honor. The note for the category is also at the end of the Non-Canadian appointments, that may be a bit misleading.

We can add the Category section to the top of the article. The names I have included on here were originally posted from the article before I touched it. Others have added names to the lists, but I think if it get's too long, then we can prune it down. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 5 July 2005 19:12 (UTC)
My opinion is that only widely notable individuals should be included. Although this is very subjective, the Member that was added today, Andrew Simone, is not very notable. --YUL89YYZ July 5, 2005 19:23 (UTC)
Then, once this article is done being on the front page, we can try to prune the listing down a bit. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 5 July 2005 19:26 (UTC)

[edit] Ahenakew stripped of Order of Canada...

I was thinking we should include something about this event in this article, to describe the process for having the Order of Canada stripped. Does anyone know how many people have ever had their Order of Canada stripped or is Ahenakew the first person to have their Order revoked?

Ahenakew is the second.

What exactly should be included?

That members can be removed from the Order, but I have no clue on what has to happen for a person to even be considered having their Order removed. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Book on Order

The Globe today referenced a book titled The Order of Canada: Its Origins, History and Development by a Christopher McCreery. It seems to have been just been published and it would be good if someone could get a hold of it and add anything interesting in it to this article. - SimonP 01:43, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

I wish I can get my hands on it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:34, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Simon, the book will come out in September, and I am thinking about getting it. 350 pages of good reading. See http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802039405/qid=1121316761/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-8986555-0548630?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I'd be interested in seeing how one can get 350 pages on this subject. Our 3000 words is fairly comprehensive. - SimonP 12:58, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
Well, I wish I can get more words in here, but I am affraid of overloainding this. The fork I created yesterday is already on VFD, so any chance of that happening is gone. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 16:12, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New device

I found out that Governor Generals wear a special neckwear of the Compaion Grade. I found a few photos, but I need to write the section a bit later. Also, should we branch off the section on the removal of the Order into a separate article? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 07:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Are we sure that this chain is a seperate entity for the Governor General of Canada ? I have never seen Adrienne Clarkson wear it and I have never heard of this ? I have a sneaking feelin that perhaps this is really the Royal Victorian Chain. Dowew 18:21, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
The chain worn by the Governor General is the Chain of the Chancellor of the Order of Canada. It is not the Royal Victorian Chain ...which only two Canadians have ever received, both Governors General (Vincent Massey in July 1960, the year after he left Rideau Hall, and Roland Michener in August 1973, in his last year as Governor General). 22:55, 17 December 2005
See the picture we have in the article, and also, I can find pictures of her wearing this chain. She wears this chain during the Order investure ceremonies. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:25, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I notice you removed the photo. I found that the same photo was used on a Canadian Postage stamp after Michner died in 1992. [9]

[edit] No more Companions

With the appointment of the new GG and her husband, that will bring the Compaion total up to 165 Companions. Unless my math is wrong, there are no more Companions that can be appointed. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:50, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Correction, after these appointments, four more can be appointed. Since there was no appointments in 2005, GG Clarkson can appoint 5 people this year, thus having only 1 appointment in 2006, unless someone dies or resigns. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:57, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually, according to the constitution, all GG's and Viceregal Consorts don't count towards the total number. See section on Companion appointments Dowew 03:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this legal

Ok, I found some guy selling lapel pins of the Order of Canada ranks. They are at http://www.defencemedals.ca/Lapel%20Pin.htm. While the Order says that insignia cannot be sold, but, is the lapel pin a legal item to even wear? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, something must be legal, since I have found other websites selling minature copies of the Order (all grades) and the ribbon coming with it. I wonder if this is mainly for collectors, but I wonder what are the penalties for someone faslely claiming they were presented the Order. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 06:37, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
According to the constitution of the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador which was passed by the Newfoundland Government there is a fine of "not more than $2000" for someone who falsely claims to be a member, falsely uses the insignia, or falsely uses to postnominals. Im not sure if there is an equivalent for the Order of Canada Dowew 02:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Canada higher than the Victoria Cross

I am curious, is the OofC higher than the VC? Or is the OofC the highest award in Canada, that can be awarded to civilians and military, and the VC is the highest military award that can be awarded in the British Commonwealth? Can someone sort this out for me, please, or have I gotten it correct?

  • The VC is higher than the Order of Canada. The VC is worn first, then the Cross of Valor, then the Order of Canada. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] useless links

Why on earth splash blue around the page when it's of no use to the reader? Why link 1967? That's REALLY useful.

Each link makes the text slightly harder to read. Tony 00:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I was told to link the years and other things that are important, like people, places and things. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Ignore that advice, please; ask yourself what possible use a link to a whole year, or decade, or century would be to the reader. Each link makes the text slightly harder to read, and encourages the reader to divert. See Wikipedia:Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context#What_should_be_linked: Wikipedia articles, in my view, are typically overlinked. Tony 23:50, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I think ZScout has applied Wikipedia policies and common sense in good measure. Not every date is linked, but because 1967 was the year the Order was created it's probably the most important date in the article and should be linked. I can definitely see myself using the link to quickly jump to the 1967 article to see what other events occured that year to help give this article context. I agree that many articles are overlinked, but this definitely not one of them. --NormanEinstein 01:04, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Honourary Members

Okay, this is confusing - for once and for all what the heck is the difference between a "Honourary Appointment" and a "non-Canadian appointment". Adrienne Clarkson's most recent batch of appointees included "Honorary Member" Francis H. Cabot for horticulture. [10] I did a quick search for him and found that he is considered one of the best garden designers in the world and has done work in some large houses around the Sr. Lawrence River (probably Rideau Hall as well). However - I cannot determin his nationality - but he also has the National Order of Quebec. - This is made even more confusing by some Rideau Hall press releases (see above). Dowew 18:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

    • I am also surprised that Peter Jennings was not considered as an honorary member (I was surprised he was even appointed). Jennings became an American citizen a few years before his tragic death, unless he somehow was allowed to keep his Canadian citizenship. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:19, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I have created a stub article for Francis Cabot - Jennings became and American Citizen in 2003 but retained his Canadian Citizenship therefore he was eligable - Althought it his appointment is a little suspicious so soon after his death. Dowew 01:42, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Someone correct the spelling in the title, please. Tony 23:33, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Pherhaps we should finally change the "non-Canadians" section to "Honorary Appointments" - if the other three or four are considered honorary appointments we should divide the section into its own components ie Compantion, Officer & Member. Dowew 01:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I have done it - pherhaps someone would like to change the wording around as admitedly it is a bit of a hack job edit Dowew 01:57, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I have tried in the past to figure out the refernce footnote thing on wikipedia to no success. If somebody could add in references to these people citations. Here they are
Okay, this brings the number of honorary appointments up to 11 - I never knew Lois was an American ! Dowew 02:24, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I got an e-mail today from the author of John Kenneth Galbraith authorized biography it states : "Prof. Galbraith gave up his Canadian citizenship in late August, 1937, a

few days before he married--and then sailed for a year's study at Cambridge University." Dowew 01:27, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Queen Mum Canadian?

HM Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother (arguably not a "non-Canadian," Companion) [22] (2000) [23] (deceased)

How is the Queen Mother "Canadian"? Are Commonwealth citizens considered Canadian for the purpose of honours? Or was she granted some kind of honourary citizenship when Canada seperated it's citizenship from the UK? (Alphaboi867 19:53, 4 September 2005 (UTC))

Most likely, she was given honorary citizenship, like the Queen. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:06, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
            The HM is a Canada as Queen (not a Citizen as Citizenship comes from her) but as Queen she is a Canada simply idea can be in place for her Mother the Late Queen futher she the Late Queen saw herself as Canadain finally the Sofnia Natalization act granted British Citizenship to all desendent of the Sofnia and there King George the VI would have held Citizenship before becoming a pass it to his wife
The Queen Mum was tecnically British as she was at one time just a british noblewoman, however, she was the Queen of Canada - monarchists would argue that by that she should be considered a Canadian - if you are asking wheather or not she is a citizen - then no - however - Is Queen Elizabeth II actually a "Canadian" ?

The answer is no, but we as Canadains live under her soverance. I say that this little bracket is good to have in the article


Also - We in Canada are "citizens" of the British Commonwealth. Until relatively recently when traveling within the commonwealth you did not require a passport - only some kind of photo id - for example you could fly from Canada to the Britihs Virgin Islands with no passport as it is part of the commonwealth. Dowew 20:12, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

It has not been the British Commonwealth since 1946 or 1949, depending how you count it. It is the Commonwealth of Nations. Hu 12:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarkson & Saul photo

I have the photo of Jean and Lafond in the appoints companion section since they are both wearing the badge like everone else on the page Dowew 03:07, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Alrighty, is it under the Crown Copyright? Zach (Sound Off) 03:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Yeah sorry, I meant to say that I changed the photo of Jean & Lafond to the previous image of Clarkson & Saul since in the Jean photo neither of them are wearing the order. Dowew 15:03, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Canada photo gallery

I have created a page Order of Canada photo gallery in which to put photographs related to the Order of Canada, especially ones which are loaded on wikipedia but cannot fit onto the main page.

Dowew 01:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Cool, thanks a lot. Zach (Sound Off) 01:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Someone has taged it for deletion. Oh well, I guess it didn't fit with guidelines. Dowew 01:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Probably because of the fair use images. Any free images would have been sent to the Wikimedia Commons. We could speedy delete the page if no one objects. Zach (Sound Off) 01:53, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nomination PDF

Is it a good idea to mirror the nomination PDF file on Wikipedia, especially presented as "click here to obtain it"? I'd hate for someone to get an out-of-date nomination form because no-one noticed it needed updating, and the copyright notice on the GG's site notes that even noncommercial users cannot represent a copy as an official version. After all, Wikipedia is not a mirror or an instruction manual. — mendel ☎ 04:30, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Your right, let's remove it. Zach (Sound Off) 04:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I still think it is a good idea to present some sort of link to the nomination forms (especially now that the gg.ca site has relaunched to what I think is a less than stellar navigation format. I have instead made a link to the gg.ca site where the forms can be downloaded. I think it is also important to remind users that postage is free when sent to Rideau Hall !. Dowew 16:11, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia is descriptive, not instructional. Would you expect to find nomination instructions in any other encyclopedia? In any case, external links that are not references belong in the "External links" section per Wikipedia:External_link. — mendel ☎ 18:46, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it hurts anyone to have nomination instructions on wikipedia...in fact I would think it makes it better. I would hope that after canadian read about the Order of Canada on wikipedia they would think of an influencial canadian and want to nominate them. Something simple like the mailing address certainly is of no harm and the link doesn't like directly to the pdf file, only to the Order of Canada page at gg.ca. Dowew 01:47, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, if we remove the nomination information, then someone will come by and say "how does someone get into the Order?" I also have the nomination information at Appointment to the Order of Canada. Zach (Sound Off) 01:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Creation

I found an interesting PDF article about the history of the Order [11]

We could use that, but that could also go into the article about Canadian decorations in general. Zach (Sound Off) 02:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] photos automatically deleted ?

The Canadian Crown Copyright Photos such as the image of Paul Anka getting the order have a tag on them saying that "This image is not licensed under the GFDL. It is under a non-commercial-use only licence. If this image was uploaded after May 19, 2005, it will soon be deleted without further warning"...is there anything we can do to stop these from being deleted ? Dowew 02:36, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

All Crown Copyright photos are being deleted, because they were under a non-commercial license. Zach (Sound Off) 02:40, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
What I can suggest is to tag the images as fair use and explain the fair use. Zach (Sound Off) 02:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Is there anyway the CanadaCopyright tag can automatically be replaced with a fairuse tag, since there are an awful lot of Crown Copyright photos on wikipedia and many canadian related pages made great use of them....and things like military medals should be under a difference licence, right ? Dowew 17:12, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
We have to alter the template itself, I will see what I can do. Zach (Sound Off) 17:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Stamp images unfair use

I don't think any of the postage stamp images are legitimate fair use here. As {{stamp}} points out, copyrighted stamps can only be used legitimately in relation to the stamp itself, not as a convenient source of pictures. As far as I know, Canada's Order of Canada-related stamps are philatelically uninteresting - it's common for countries to put medals on stamps, particularly at notable anniversaries. So unless someone can come up with a different fair use rationale, these images will have to go. Stan 14:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed, taken out back and shot. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) Fair use policy 20:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Rae

  • I'm not sure how effective it is to have that picture of Bob Rae wearing his lapel pin in the article. I know when I first saw it, i thought it was vandalism... till I realized that he was wearing the pin... Is there any way to crop it so that we only see the pin? Or even make an arrow pointing to it? - pm_shef 02:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I do not think we could crop it, since the pic is pretty small. My suggestion is that we should get a pic of the lapel pin itself. It was removed before by OrphanBot, but it was placed back. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I have a rather fuzzy pic of John Ralston Saul's lapel pin which I took when I met him a while back. Unfortuantly my camera had been dropped so its quite fuzzy...if that would work Dowew 22:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
That'll work. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, its on my brother's computer so I will have to upload it at a later date. Dowew 03:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I found this one of Elizabeth May in the commons...as much as I dislike the woman, its a free photo Dowew 21:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, that will work too. Pretty much, it doesn't matter to me who wears the lapel pin, but as long as the photo is free (in the sense of our goal), then it is fine. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 23:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


Well, I made the change. I think the Saul photo I took would still be better, just have to get to it Dowew 03:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sample List of Appointments

Editors keep adding people to this list, and since it's just supposed to be a sample, that's probably not a good thing. I propose that either someone decides on a good [small] list and we vote on it here (and then someone ruthlessly enforces it), or else the sample list is removed entirely and only a link to the list page is left. OzLawyer 15:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't matter to me, but if we have to go with something, it would be the second options, since there will be new holders to the Order and the old ones will pass away, so the list will change all of the time. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lewis MacKenzie And The Order Of Canada.

I understand that Lewis MacKenzie has recently been established this year as a member of the Order of Canada, but I think he should be stripped of that privilege because of the controversy surrounding him. Personally, I believe he doesn't deserve this honour since there was a lot of evidence showing he lied and gave into bribery from the Serbs many years ago, and failed to accomplish the whole point of his mission "UNPROFOR" (United Nations Protection Force) since he failed to preotect innocent civilians that were being killed daily. There are many other Canadian heroes out there that deserve this more than he does. A lot of people are still ignorant about what really happened with his involvement in the Yugoslav Wars (especially in Bosnia), and base their opinions on what he has shared with the media. There was an instance where he lied in one of his statements, just to prove his point. I'm not writing this comment to start a huge argument, but to say that the topic of Lewis MacKenzie is very detailed and like I said before, many people are ignorant about what really happened. Thanks.

We try not to list every single person who has the order here, but we do mention their status at the order at that person's article. My suggestion is that if you wish for MacKenzie to lose his honor, we have an article detailing on how to get someone removed and you can help get that process started. However, from what I have seen with the 2 strippings of the honor, they have to be convicted of a criminal offense before even talk of their honor being revoked is even discussed. I know there are plenty of other questionable appointments, so I guess you should write a NPOV tidbit at the article of removal from the Order. If you do not wish too, I will see what I can do. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Free images

It appears now that all of the images of the badges have been photographed and put under a free copyright license. Many of the images are listed in the catalog of Library and Archives Canada. While some have been put online, others have not. I am wondering if, those living in Canada, could gain access for the photographs so we can use them here and finally ditch many of the fair use images we have? I also plan on overhauling the article to make the references look better and maybe update some stats. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I also plan on overhauling the other subpages. Anyone who wishes to help, they are welcome. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Order of Canada (Companion).png

Image:Order of Canada (Companion).png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:06, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Order of Canada (Member).jpg

Image:Order of Canada (Member).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] info box

Is there a way to add an extra line to the "infobox". Under the line about "Ranks" where it says Companion, Officer and Member I think there should be another collumn for former ranks Medal of Service and Medal of Courage. Dowew (talk) 02:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. But, I wonder: is a medal a grade? Or were the MoS and MoC decorations within the order? --G2bambino (talk) 15:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)