Talk:Orange Revolution

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[edit] NPOV

The whole article is tilted in favor of the 'Orange' side but there's an especially clear example here:

"Other allegations, still disputed and unproven, include Russian involvement in Yushchenko's poisoning several weeks before the election, as well as the alleged presence of Russian security forces[9] sent to help Yanukovych to ascend to the presidency."

'disputed and unproven' implies that the balance of probability is that they are correct. I do not believe that is the case. PeterSP 06:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

You can't tag the whole article over such minor point. But I don't get your point either. How would you like to rephrase this? --Irpen 06:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
BTW, I also do not believe in these particular allegations and it was me who wrote this phrase. Perhaps "anecdotal" would be a more precise term, would not it? --Irpen 06:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the phrase his accurate since international consensus seems to be that 'the balance of probability is that' the allegations are correct. Let's keep the phrasing.Malick78 09:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

This article looks good, but it needs a heckuvalot more citations all over the article (except the last bit of "Political Developments," this looks good) in order to qualify for GA rank. This will stay in place for a maximum of 7 days. Thank you. Diez2 00:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed allegations of vote fraud

The British Helsinki Human Rights Group has exposed these charges to be unsubstantiated. This article is immensely biased in favor of Yushchenko and the western media that fabricated the "orange revolution". http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.105.99.126 (talk) 22:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

user:Jacob Peters, fist of all, you are banned from editing. If you are interested to contribute, appeal your ban to ArbCom and give them a word to not create sockpuppets anymore. We'll see what they rule, but now you are deservingly banned. Nevertheless, I am trying to accommodate whatever reasonable I can find in your edits. To start with, I could not find anything that confirms the reliability of www.bhhrg.org. Sorry, this is unusable. The WP ref you added is somewhat worthwile, but you deliberately gave a vague ref. I strongly suspect that the reason was that you knew that it does not say what you claim it does. Anyway, here is the ref from WP on that day that you refused to give in full:

I am posting it here and we can include what it says into the article but not your nonsense assertion. --Irpen 02:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

First, please refrain from slandering people. You falsely accused me of being another person and of being banned. Second, it is not your decision to make what is and is not a reliable source. The British Helsinki Human Rights Group had observers in the election and are well qualified to form an opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.99.126 (talk • contribs)

Whatever. If you didn't quack so loudly, Jacob, you might take more people in. You are not wanted on the English Wikipedia. Please take your disruptive activities elsewhere. Moreschi Talk 14:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Anyway, I am ready to consider using bhhrg provided I get any references that assert its reliability. Its own claims of being reliable are not enough. The WP article is indeed usable and I will add the info from it. --Irpen 21:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

Even though there have been some improvements in the number of sources and citations in the article, many claims go widely unsourced, and there still is one section in the article without a source. I do thank Irpen for trying to improve this. Come back in a little while with a few more citations and try again. Thank you! Diez2 15:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

No worries, Diez2. I am aware of the article's deficiencies of which lack of inline refs in the primary one. The only label that IMO is worth the bother is an FA one and this article is very far from it. Referencing and expanding it will continue slowly and I agree that as of now it is unfit for GA. Thanks for your feedback anyway. --Irpen 19:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Reaction

Is it worth putting in something about this? Russia cutting off gas supplies...—Preceding unsigned comment added by Malick78 (talk • contribs)

Maybe a quick mention, but I would not expand it under this entry. Russia-Ukraine gas dispute material however can be used for Ukraine-Russia foreign relations article.--Riurik(discuss) 22:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hail Putin

Can anyone please explain how is this image related? First of all it has no source it was done by Ukrainian artists nor whether it published during the time of the Orange revolution. Even if both of those events are proven, how is Putin dressed in Stalin's attire related to the events in Ukraine in 2004? There is nothing wrong with a carricature, but select a relevant one [1], not some abstract image. --Kuban Cossack 18:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The relationship between Putin and Orange Revolution is straightforward in that Volodia twice got involved visiting Ukraine while campaigning for Yanyk and then recognized the fraudulent elections. But I agree that the image has no source of its origin and is problematic in other ways.--Riurik(discuss) 21:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic-nationalist aspects

I always got the impression that there was a supremacist undertone to a lot of "Orange Revolution" proclamations, especially when Yushchenko never missed an opportunity to say something like "all real Ukranians support us", and in the context of suppression of Russian-language education, etc. I just now found an academic study saying, "The parties that orchestrated the Orange Revolution had several objectives that had some ethnic and/or nationalistic content and were generally considered to be ethnicity-wise pro-Ukrainian," and which found that "ethnic Russians were less likely to vote pro-Orange than ethnic Ukrainians just prior to the Orange Revolution and this is independent of their preferences for a western type market economy and a western type democracy." [ftp.iza.org/dp2530.pdf]

Would someone with more expertise on the issue care to include this aspect of matters, or to collaborate with me on it? Eleland 15:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding GA

Do you guys think we should try for the GA status again? — Alex 00:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Needed?

I hate to put in 'citation needed' tags, but I really think that this statement could use one:

"Under intense scrutiny by domestic and international observers, the second run-off was declared to be "fair and free""

The best I've managed to find is a Washington Post article but it doesn't mention anything about "intense scrutiny by domestic and international observers": —Preceding unsigned comment added by Illu45 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


________________________________ Sorry people , i dont really know how can i send you an information, thats why i decided to edit enything to give this information to you. If you wanna write about Orange Revolution , i think you dont have to write ONLY about Ukraine , you should write about other Orange Revolutions around the world. Ive got some infromation about Orange Revolution in Azerbaijan. Please add about 3-4 Linces if you can. Thank you !!!! this is the website for information " http://www.orangerevolution.us/blog/_archives/2005/4/14/581982.html

_________________________________ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Undomix (talk • contribs) 21:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)