Talk:Oracle

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[edit] scholastics have been through here

It seems the scholastics have been through here. I pulled up the first version of this page, which deals clearly with the most famous oracle of all, that of Apollo, at Delphi. Since then, that specific topic has been moved to the last-mentioned page, while a whole constellation of articles on this oracle or that have been written.

I don't argue that good content has been added, but I find it overprecise, perhaps imprecise, to discuss all oracles as though they were merely their sibyls. The Oracle was not a crazy woman raving in a room; she herself was considered unimportant by her contemporaries, a mere conduit. The Oracle was the voice of the god Apollo, high in the Pantheon, and taken very seriously indeed.

I see no reason for this radical revisionism, but I lack the time and patience to pick a fight over this, overhauling the entire complex of articles. I do insist on a simple link to the only Classical oracle most readers have ever known. β€” Xiongη†Štalk* 14:58, 2005 August 13 (UTC)

[edit] Oracle Corporation

Should a link be added to the Oracle Corporation? I think, in modern times the word "Oracle" actually refers to the company, almost as often, or as often, as the prophetic Oracle. - Tejastheory 01:24, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't the disambiguation link serve to do that? Sunray 08:29, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
On further reflection, I agree that it may be best to provide a link to the corporation, and have done so. Sunray 09:08, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
But surely it doesn't make any sense to have the infobox for the Oracle Corporation on this page. I've removed it. 69.140.12.199 19:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
It does if you consider that the vast majority of the people searching for 'oracle' are actually intending to search for 'Oracle', as in the company Oracle or the Oracle Database β€”The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.87.1.171 (talk) 06:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] The Oracle of Ancient English

http://www.digitalbuilder.co.nz/Society_SubconciousLanguage.asp

I heard something weird and I thought it was true, I have Schizoprehnia so I will not say for sure it is true, but merely learn what I can from it.

The link doesn't seem to work for me. What's the point, exactly? MasterXiam 02:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I suggest the default result for the serach Oracle go directly to the disambiguation page, as it is likely most users searching for oracle are actually looking for information on the company/database Rtcpenguin 21:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Hellenic

I removed ancient Macedonia from the sentence about semi-Hellenic countries.Most historians agree that it was a Hellenic one.--Hectorian 12:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oracle database

I would imagine that most people (like 98% or so) doing an internet search on Oracle intended to find Oracle database. Are there any objections to reversing the default so this page becomes Oracle (prophecy) and Oracle points to Oracle database? As a compromise Oracle could point to the disambiguation page. I'm posting this here because I figure this is where the objections are most likely if there are any.

Surely the Oracle Corporation and database were named for oracle, as defined in this article. As you correctly note, if you search Google for "oracle," the first many pages are devoted to Oracle Corporation. However, note that Google does not distinguish capitals. However, in dictionaries and encyclopedias "Oracle" refers to Oracle Corporation; "oracle" to the prophetic source. If you search for "oracle" in a dictionary you will get a definition similar to the one in the lead paragraph of this article. People who want to know what an oracle is will want to find this article. On the other hand, people who search Wikipedia for "Oracle Corporation" or "Oracle (database)" will get the company and the software respectively. That is as it should be.
There is a disambiguation for the Oracle database listed at the top of the article, which makes it easy for folks to switch to that article if they've mistakenly come here. I would be strongly opposed to a change in the way the articles are referenced. It would make no sense, based on what I have just outlined. Sunray 05:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I know I'm late to the discussion (very!), but it seems to me that most people doing a web search for "Oracle" would be looking for the database, while most people searching Wikipedia specifically would be looking for this article. So I think we should cater to the latter crowd. :-) --tiny plastic Grey Knight βŠ– 07:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conflicting histories of closure

I removed the text:

In the 3rd century, the oracle (perhaps bribed) declared that the god would no longer speak there.

because it appears to contradict Famous oracular statements from Delphi, which records prophecies from the 4th century. I replaced it with this from Pythia:

Its last recorded response was given in 393 AD, when the emperor Theodosius I ordered pagan temples to cease operation.

Neither claim is referenced, so verification is needed. -- Beland 00:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved per discussion (non-admin closure). PeterSymonds | talk 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] (Requested page move)Point Oracle to Oracle (disambiguation) instead of to the person referred to as an oracle.

As stated here in the past, the majority of the people looking for "Oracle" will search for the multi billion company Oracle Corporation, and not for the philosophic alternative which discusses persons referred to as oracles.

As both topics are quite high profile, i would like to suggest moving the current "Oracle" article to a different article name, and point "Oracle" to Oracle (disambiguation). To me it makes much more sense to point people to a page where multiple options are being given, then blindly sending them to either one of different topics. Even trough there is a {{otheruses}} i don't think that this should warrant the current situation. Excirial (Talk,Contribs) 18:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Have you any proof that a majority are looking for the corporation? Have you checked Google Books and Google Scholar to see what the predominant use of the term is in reference texts? Would this page-move achieve much that couldn't be fixed with a second hat-redirection at the top of the article that goes directly to the corporation page? Knepflerle (talk) 21:32, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I doubt that it is possible to check the intent of the users who type "Oracle" in the search field, as it will automatically take them the the scholar related page (Statistics on page views would not work that way). However, i think both articles can be called high profile enough to warrant a disambiguation; Oracle as a company is the second largest software vendor in the world, only surpassed by microsoft. Also many of their products can be called industry leaders in their respective market.
I trust you that the scholar interpretation for Oracle is a major topic. Since i am not really into scholar related articles i would personally qualify it as less notable as the company, but i am pretty certain that unless you have some ICT affinity or frequently use oracle products the entire brand seems just as minor. If both articles are highly notable, and have the same name, i would suggest adding a disambig layer in between to prevent any mixups.
As for the OtherUses tag: I don't deem that this would really solve the problem. Even as a regular editor i somehow managed to miss the disambiguation link on top of the article since i was distracted by the image on the right side(at part from that: An user might just as well be searching an oracle product). I can only imagine what happens to non frequent visitors if they get a page full of text containing just a little link to an other uses page. Besides, as both articles are highly notable i would not deem it correct if either one would get a direct link using an often used term to describe both of the articles; your just bound to create confusion for at least some users. Frankly i would just as well suggest a move if the article was a direct link to the company, as i would suggest a move now. Excirial (Talk,Contribs) 22:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment There are about an equal number of page views and about an equal number of links to each (slightly more page views for Oracle, slightly more links to Oracle Corporation). Almost no one is clicking on Oracle (disambiguation) - there are ten times as many views of Oracle than there are of Oracle (disambiguation), so right now by some mysterious mechanism (links?) almost everyone is getting to the page they intended to find. I would suggest leaving everything as it is other than adding a better nav link at the top (which will also make it impossible to tell if everyone was really looking for the corporation). There are a few links that point to the wrong page. I'll start in on fixing them. This is what a Google search for Oracle looks like - it's easy to see how people always get to the correct page: 199.125.109.104 (talk) 00:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Oracle 11g, Siebel, PeopleSoft | Oracle, The World's Largest ...
The world's largest enterprise software company, Oracle is the only vendor to offer solutions for every tier of your business -- database, middleware, ...
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An oracle is a person or agency considered to be a source of wise counsel or prophetic opinion; an infallible authority, usually spiritual in nature. ...
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  • Oppose the move. The primary meaning is a person or agency considered to be a source of wise counsel... as the current article puts it. To move as proposed wouldn't be quite as bad as redirecting white to White Motor Company, but it's the same sort of idea. Andrewa (talk) 13:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment The primary meaning of the word oracle itself is indeed a person or agency considered to be a source of wise counsel.... Yet if we look at the term oracle it is just as valid for both articles. For me personally (Completely Non NPOV of course) the primary association with the word oracle would be the vendor, as i meet oracle products much more regularly then i meet the other meaning of the word.
Regardless, you sure have a point here. I am still in favor of adding a disambiguation page for clarity, but seeing both your statement and that of 199.125.109.104 there is likely a smaller issue then i suspected it would be, and much less of an easy, no big impact move i originally suspected. Excirial (Talk,Contribs) 14:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:naming standards talks of what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity. But there's no easy way to measure this! Andrewa (talk) 08:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose. It seems fairly clear that the philosophic concept is the primary meaning of the term. The hatnote should be more than suifficient for those looking for the corporation. PC78 (talk) 20:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Hatnote is enough, the company is not more well known than the primary meaning. --erachima talk 20:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The current arrangement is the best, the disambiguation note at the top is enough. -- Beardo (talk) 03:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.