Talk:Ophiuchus

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The expression “a year and a day” in fairy tales is probably a remnant where the calendar was reckoned in thirteen 28 day months with a single day left over. The Roman god Janis with his two heads looking in opposite directions may be the god positioned on the extra day. He is looking to the year past and the year ahead. The thirteenth sign may be part of the Mystery cults and removed from the eyes of the profane. It was undoubtedly an Earth Goddess sign (her sign was the serpent, after all) and suppressed by the change to a patralineal society.

There was a concerted effort by most religious sects to dethrone the moon as the object of keeping time and replace it with the sun. The astrological priesthood needed to remover her constellation in order to provide a solar year of 4 equal parts. The Masonic rituals still refer to the squaring of the circle in astrological terms using the signs of the zodiac.

In the Bible, Eve was “cast out” of the Garden of Eden and may be a reference to the suppression of Ophiucus and the earth goddess religious sects.

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[edit] Tau Ceti

"If we were to observe Earth's Sun from Tau Ceti, it would appear as a 2.54 magnitude star in Ophiuchus."

Not true. The Sun would be in Bootes and of magnitude 1.43 (according to Starry Night Pro).

It would be in Bootes, but with a magnitude of 2.66 (3.64parsecs away)
I believe you're corrected, and have edited out the Tau Ceti reference. -- Curps 03:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of the Reasons Why Ophiuchus was Dropped from the Zodiac

The section giving the "reasons" Ophiuchus was dropped from the Zodiac needs to be discussed further. The History of Astrology article also should be expanded because it is more general and not specific. This article and that article are not too informative. I'm curious as to when Ophiuchus was dropped from the official Zodiac listing and for what reasons. We know Libra was carved out of the claws of Scorpius and the stars of Libra even bear the word "claw" in them (Zugen-). The reasons I've seen by searching online were:

1. European superstition over the number 13. This would explain why in Christianized Europe, astrology would only have 12 signs.

2. effort to switch away from a 13 month lunar calendar and onto a 12 month solar calendar as a result of secular revisions in the calendar or due to religious clashes between solar-based and lunar-based religions.

It would make sense that the Greeks had 12 constellations (Ophiuchus but no Libra), but what of the Romans? The celestial bodies would certainly pass through Ophiuchus still.


Another question is what is the history of the constellation's name. The 12 other constellations have Latin names, yet Ophiuchus has its Greek name used. What was the history of its name usage? The Greeks called it Ophiuchus, the Romans Serpentarius, but what about the European peoples who came after them? Did they switch the name back if they were the ones to drop it from the astrological zodiac or did it revert back for some other reason?


The real way to answer this question is to look at every ancient society: Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and the various Mesopotamian peoples and see how many constellations they had and what those constellations were. It would also be curious to see when the Elements (Fire, Water, Earth, Air) and Temperaments (Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable) were associated with the signs to see how they have changed with the removal of this sign if they even existed before Ophiuchus was removed. I've seen accounts saying the Romans created Libra, but the Babylonians also viewed the stars in that span of the ecliptic as a pair of scales. It would be good to sort out what the Zodiac meant to the various ancient cultures, what characteristics they defined the Zodiac through (element, etc) and how many constellations they considered to be in the Zodiac. --139.67.202.120 06:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

There are 12 signs because that's just how the system was developed. At least as far back as Hellenistic astrology, there has been a system of triplicities (earth, air, fire, water), quadruplicates (fixed, mutable, cardinal), planetary rulerships, etc., that all depend on an even number of signs, specifically 12. 13 thus does not fit the bill, so this would definitely be a reason to drop Ophiuchus (if it was ever a zodiac sign to begin with, of course). Samuel Grant 22:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earth Goddess?

Incredibly unlikely that this sign has anything to do with the "Earth Goddess" symbology, because the concept of a universal Earth Goddess which ancient paganism followed is a 20th century invention based on the inaccurate and contrived literature of Margaret Murray in her 1921 book "The Witch-Cult in Western Europe".

While goddess of fertlity and agriculture certaintly were worshiped, these goddess are ancenstral to the present day concept of the "Earth Goddess" invented by Gardner (a good aquaintance of Mrs. Murray) when he constructed Wicca. There was no one singular goddess anymore than there was one singular god. Historically speaking, what was largely suppressed during the Inquisition (or "Burning Times", if you will) was Christian mysticism such as Goetian (demon summoning and commanding using grimories such as the Key of Solomon-- it is interesting to note many Catholic exorcists engaged in the practice at the time) practices and Christian-Kabbalah hybrids. The vast majority of ancient pagan gods were transformed into Saints and incorporated into orthodox Christianity (Catholicism) long before the Inquisition was ever dreamed up. Very little paganism was actually practiced in Europe at the time-- the religious populations were pretty much split between Christian orthodoxy, Judaism/Kabbalah and Islam; although Christian orthodoxy held greater sway of influence than any of the other religions did. Much of the actual religious persecution was against these latter religions by the Christian orthodoxy. The accusations filed against the Knights Templar is a prime example: they were accused of worshiping Mohammed(Baphomet was an extremely common french misspelling of Mohammed) in the official records. The concept that Templars were paganists is a modern day invention.

And any serious scholar of occultic/religious history knows all of these things.

I can only speculate on why Ophiuchus was left out the same way I can only speculate on why the current Zodiac consists of Twelve Constellations but not any others. However, I can say with a great deal of certainty it had nothing to do with the persecution of a non-existant "Earth Goddess cult". --65.102.7.2 02:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC) Even the Italian Benandanti, often used as an example of an "Earth Goddess cult", were in reality a Christian sub-sect for goodness sake! They were tried for heresy not witchcraft. Very different crimes (heresy is deviation from Christian orthodoxy, and witchcraft was anything that had nothing to do with Christianity) --65.102.7.2 02:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest a revision of the above statement that ''Baphomet was an extremely common french misspelling of Mohammed" as this is not a view that is now taken seriously in academic circles and in any event, were the Templars Islamic in some form or other, there is no Muslim sect or group that has ever worshipped Muhammad or would countenance doing so.

[edit] pronunciation

  • "ˌoff-ee-'YOU-kus"? anyone? --W guice 16:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
    • [ofiUχus] in Latin, I'd say. Substitute [k] for [χ] if you don't have the loch sound. —Nightstallion (?) 12:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Dang. I thought it was "off-EYE-you-kus". Chrisobyrne 13:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constellation borders?

It looks from the image on teh wikibox that Alpha Ophiucus is in the area of hte sky assigned to Hercules. Why is that? Nik42 06:27, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

There are two images on Hercules (constellation), one steals the star from Ophiuchus and one doesn't. • Maurog • 08:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)