Talk:Ophan

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[edit] Merging

This should really be merged with the article on Thrones.

The article on Thrones has zero specific references to any of its information. If anything it should be merged into this article. Heptazane 16:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Against Merge - the Kabbalistic angelic hierarchy lists them as separate choirs. Jason Harvestdancer | Talk to me 21:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Against Merge - there is no evidence, as far as i am aware or otherwise supported in the article, to make the correlation that the Ophanim, as seen in the Old Testament along with the Cherubim and Seraphim, could be the same host of Spiritual Beings mentioned by Paul of Tarsus, in the New Testament, as Thrones (i.e. Colossians 1:16). Also in the article Thrones, although it does not mention the source, it states "They do however, come in the second Choir, and are assigned to planets.", [my bold] not in the first choir (where the Ophanim are included due to the vision association with the other two superior Orders, the Cherubim and Seraphim). Such popular idea of mixing both Orders - Ophanim and Thrones - may have arised from the distribution of the Nine Orders of Angels presented in the De Coelesti Hierarchia, where the Thrones are ranked below the Cherubim (and the Ophanim omitted): however, a different view may be found at the following talk page: Talk:Christian angelic hierarchy#Hierarchies and Zodiacal signs. Hope it helps. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.58.99.122 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 27 July 2007.

reedited the article to try clarify and show the distinctions of both Orders; also removed the merge tag.

[edit] a throne is 'static' or sedentary, whereas a chariot is 'dynamic' and traverses

I am for the merger and integration of articles... it is pointless keeping the articles separate without an exegesis of their historical development and representation within confluent traditions... btw the orders are NOT a hierarchy, they are a system and there were members who moved between orders and shared membership between orders, it is not so conceptually neat...

Gulley (1996: p.37) states that:

The 'thrones'; also known as 'ophanim' (offanim) and 'galgallin', are creatures that function as the actual chariots of God driven by the cherubs. They are characterized by peace and submission; God rests upon them. Thrones are depicted as great wheels containing many eyes, and reside in the area of the cosmos where material form begins to take shape. They chant glorias to God and remain forever in his presence. They mete out divine justice and maintain the cosmic harmony of all universal laws.

• Gulley, Rosemary Ellen (1996). Encyclopedia of Angels. ISBN 0-8160-29881

Musica universalis B9 hummingbird hovering ^{(talk • contribs)} 04:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi dear Friend. Well, perhaps without noticing it, when you above discern between static and dynamic, you present a self-evident major difference between the Thrones (as described in New Testament vision) and the Wheels (also known as Thrones, as described in Old Testament visions: Ophanim). About the hierarchical system to which you show your own aversion: it is our present society of our "modern" world that makes one blindly believe that we are all equal (leveled under the same materialist ideology; Spiritual Beings being a mere byproduct, called imagination, of cerebral neuro-cellular activity, an impossibility or just delusional stories): We are equal in essence (as we may learn from all the great Religions), yet, like in ours schools, not everyone of us in this our School of Life is at the same step in path of Spiritual evolution. If there are differences among us in the position we occupy in evolution at our scale (due to each one's own effort), imagine the differences, in a wider scale, among the various Orders of Beings evolving in our solar system, God's habitation: there you have the basis for the hierarchical system. Whatever you may deduce from these brief lines: thank you for your attention. --Ishimfirestarter 12:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Digimon Reference

As big as a Digimon fan as I am, I would like to see the reference to Ophanimon listed as a "Popular Culture" reference. I understand that the article is rather small, and content is needed, but "Popular Culture" references should be properly labeled as such. --kenohki 15:29, 23 April 2006 (UTC)