Talk:Opeth

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Featured article star Opeth is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
Maintained The following user(s) are actively contributing to this article and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources:
Burningclean (talk · contribs)
Skeletor2112 (talk · contribs)
This in no way implies article ownership; all editors are encouraged to contribute.
Archive
Talk archives:
*Archive one
*Archive two

Contents

[edit] GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written:
    Pass Kudos to the writers, this is one of the most thorough GA nominations I've seen
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable:
    Pass Just about every line has a reference, well done.
  3. It is broad in its coverage:
    Pass Very much so.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy:
    Pass no problems there.
  5. It is stable:
    Pass no problems there.
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate:
    Pass though I would recommend that the lists of albums and band members be put into tables if the article is to be further promoted.
  7. Overall:
    Pass Exceptional article. -Ed! (talk) 15:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Related acts

I am aware that there is a dispute regarding the related bands section of the infobox. As someone uninvolved in the dispute, I am offering a third opinion- with a band with such a rich history as Opeth, the best way to determine 'related acts' is through member associations- if Opeth and these other bands have a member or members in common. If this leads to too many bluelink bands, then further discussion may be needed. Judging related acts by listing bands which sound similar is too subjective, while listing tour partners, bands covered and whatnot is far, far too broad. I reccomend that this discussion is continued here, so that all interested parties (myself potentially included) can follow it easily and comment freely. Can I also add that age and education levels of different editors is utterly irrelevent- we work not on editors' own knowledge, but on reliable sources, not to mention the fact that we have no way of confirming people are who they say they are. J Milburn (talk) 16:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


I'm re-posting this becuase I am unsure if you recieved it the first time. If so, I apologize for any troubles. (*=non-music related) There are many reasons as to why Porcupine Tree should be an associated act of Opeth. NO, they do not have any related members, but there are many other contributing factors that I (and others) believe should be concidered valid for this particular case.
1)Steven Wilson, vocalist and main songwriter for Porcupine Tree, played an integral part in the writing process in 3 of Opeth's 9 studio albums as a producer.
2)Steven Wilson contibuted vocals to numerous Opeth songs spanned over those same 3 albums. (2001's "Blackwater Park", 2002's "Deliverance" & 2003's "Damnation")
3)Steven Wilson contributed guitar lines, guitar melodies, keyboard patches, and tribal hand-drumming solos to songs also spanned over those same 3 albums.
4)Steven Wilson wrote the complete lyrics to the song titled "Death Whispered a Lullaby" off of Opeth's album titled "Damnation".
5)Mikael Akerfeldt, vocalist and main songwriter for Opeth, contibuted vocals to 3 songs off of Porcupine Tree's studio album titled "Deadwing". (tracks 1, 3 and 5)
6)Mikael Akerfeldt contributed a guitar solo to track 5 off of the same Porcupine Tree album.
7)Akerfeldt & Wilson have an as-yet-untitled side project together in which they already have 1 song completed. (an alternate mix of a b-side track off of Porcupine Tree's 2002 album titled "In Absentia")
8)Akerfeldt & Wilson have been best friends for over 6 years.*

I hope that you will look into my points really closely and give a true third-party non biased opinion. Once you read into the information I am sure you will see where I am coming from with this "arguement". As far as Dream Theater is concerned. I offered user Burningclean a truce in which I offered for Dream Theater to remain off of Opeth's associated acts but in return Porcupine Tree could remain on the said list. He declined. I believe I am being fair and civil about this and I hope a proper resolution can be made.

Okay, we will add PT (alphebetically), however Dream Theater stays out of the infobox, they have nothing to do with Opeth. Just as a friendly note, I recommend signing your comments with four tidles (~~~~) —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 04:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. Metalstyle (talk) 04:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copy edit: points of clarification

At Burningclean's request I have read through the article and copy edited. Great article, by the way—it's evident that a lot of hard work has gone into it, and reading it has actually made me interested in the band. A few points of discussion or clarification:

  • I attempted to be consistent in treating the band as singular (Opeth is rather than Opeth are) but at times that has introduced some awkward-sounding prose, so sometimes I avoided the issue by saying things like "the second album" rather than "its second album". Perhaps some more work is needed on this issue.
Thanks, I know that is an issue with my writing, but so far I haven't been able to pinpoint just how it should work. But all of the changes you made sound fine, IMO. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • We usually try to describe album or song content in the present tense, as we do with literature. We can say, "The band recorded the album" (past tense) but usually prefer "the album features Opeth's longest song" (present tense). Some work is needed on this, as I found it troublesome to introduce switches back and forth between tenses.
Cool, I see what you mean - if you notice any more switches please point them out. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • On that note, might it be advisable to change Though its style originated in Scandinavian death metal to a present tense such as "originates" or "has its roots in"?
Yea, that sentence was recently changed by another user, it used to read "While firmly rooted in... " - I changed it back. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • ...the band began incorporating acoustic guitars and guitar harmonies into its sound; the group relied less on blast beats and the aggression of death metal, and formed the core sound of Opeth. Something is missing here; what was it that formed? Does this mean to say something like "...thus developed the core sound"?
I rearranged the sentence to read: "The group began to rely less on the blast beats and aggression typical of death metal, and incorporated acoustic guitars and guitar harmonies into its music; developing the core sound of Opeth." Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Due to problems with Candlelight Records... I was left wondering what the problems were. Is there another noun that could be more specific and descriptive?
I replaced the sentence with: "Due to distribution problems with the newly formed Candlelight Records, the album was not released until May 15, 1995, and was released only in Europe." - The label had only released 2 albums then(Emperor), and they were still getting it together. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • With only five songs and lasting 66 minutes, the album featured Opeth's longest song, the twenty-minute "Black Rose Immortal". This sentence could be clearer in its message about how long Opeth's songs are. "Despite having only five songs..."? "The album comprises five songs but lasts 66 minutes." (There's that issue of present tense vs. past tense I had mentioned.)
  • "I had to lie somewhat... saying that we could do this recording very soon, it won't cost more than a regular single album". Needs a citation?
Added the cite back, it must've been removed accidentally. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • entering Nacksving studios in 2002 Is it "Nacksving Studios", a proper noun?
Fixed to Nacksving Studios. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • the band moved to England to first mix the heavy album Did they actually move there or travel?
Changed to "After recording basic tracks, the band moved production to England to first mix the heavy album" Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Although Åkerfeldt initially believed the band could not finish both albums, Opeth completed Deliverence and Damnation in just seven weeks of studio time, which was the same amount spent on Blackwater Park alone. This seemed out of sequence; should this sentence be placed earlier in the section?
I put that sentence there because it was after the info on the release of the second of the two albums - I guess it might be better insterted before the release info - I moved it a few sentences up. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • "To be honest", Åkerfeldt said, "that's such an insult after 15 years as a band and 8 records. I can't believe we haven't earned each and every Opeth fans [sic] credibility after all these years. I mean, our songs are 10 minutes long for fucks sake!"[27] If we are putting sic for "fans", should we also put it for "fucks" (missing an apostrophe)?
I'm not a big fan of even keeping the "fucks sake" - the same point could be made ending the quote after "our songs are 10 minutes long" Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • the first time the band rehearsed properly I'm not sure that "properly" is quite right here.
Removed. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • he wanted the song "Isolation Years" on the album Is that linked to the previous clause because it is a song that is or is not about "the occult"?
You know, checking the citiation it says that the work is a concept, except for that song, so Im not sure where that came from... it doesn't say anything about the occult being of prominent influence, it doesnt say anything about re-writing any lyrics... I think that whole sentence should be out. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Watershed has a set release date of June 3, 2008 What is a "set release date"? Is it different than a release date?
Changed to "Watershed is set to be released on June 3, 2008."
  • twin harmony guitars Is it the harmony that is twin, or the guitars that are twin? If it's the harmony, there needs to be a hyphen: "twin-harmony".
Its twin guitars, so probably "twin-guitar harmonies"? Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • "I got tired of it, whole harmony guitar thing", Åkerfeldt said. "It got out of hand in the mid-90s. Every band was doing that thing." Could someone verify the quote? Something seems not right here.
The exact quote is: "Iron maiden, Thin Lizzy, At the gates, My dying bride etc…those bands got me into the whole harmony guitar thing. It got out of hand in the mid 90´s. Every band was doing that thing. I got tired of it and we changed a little bit." INterview from Hail Metal
I put the "I got tired of it" at the beginning for clarity, but it looks like its missing a "the" now. Like it should read: "I got tired of it, the whole harmony guitar thing". So I put that back in. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Those are all my questions and concerns at the moment, all very minor. Also, please feel free to challenge me about any of the copy edits I chose to make today. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 05:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help dude, and I would totally suggest checking out some Opeth - check out the song samples on the page for a taste of what they cover. Skeletor2112 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
You guys rock out big time. —Burningclean [Speak the truth!] 19:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Progressive rock?

???

142.162.199.159 (talk) 02:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

ya? Maged M. Mahfouz (talk) 02:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Damnation is progressive rock. Burningclean [speak] 02:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uhhhhhhhh, melodeath?

I won't argue that Opeth is definitely prog metal but it used to also say they were melodic death metal, which they are....so what happened to that? 165.196.83.30 (talk) 22:22, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I dont' think thaey are. Burningclean [speak] 19:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
The fact is that most progressive death metal bands incorporate melodeath into their style so there's really no need to put melodeath under there ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.151.151 (talk) 00:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Er, that's not true. What about Death? Opeth is melodic death metal (besides the other genres as well) and I think it should say as much. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 19:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a real problem with it being added, just source it, reliably and correctly. Burningclean [speak] 21:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

That link didn't work? Damn. It mentioned their melodic sounding death metal (or something). Well idk how to find professional reviews, except on AMG. Oh, well, I don't really care whether they get the label or not. The other genres pretty effectively describe them as it is. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

It worked, but it was unreliable. It was basically a finsite. Burningclean [speak] 22:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3 and BTBAM

Why does it say I cant add BTBAM or 3? theyre also on the progressive nation tour. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.240.230.181 (talk) 23:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

They are supporting acts and not very notable to mention. In the FAC it was noted that they shouldn't be mentioned. Burningclean [speak] 00:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Commas vs. line breaks

Alright, you all have to settle down. I'm starting to see profanity on my watchlist, that is screaming WP:CIVIL. You all should reach a consensus before you start being rude. Maby this calls for a vote. I would like the line breaks becuase their genres have long titles. Burningclean [speak] 21:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

And I agree. I have not used any profanity thus far, I would first like to point out. Second, I just want all the bands' genre delimiters to be left alone in whatever form they've been in for a while at least (for now, since there is no solution to the issue), whether that be comma breaks or line breaks. User:Niderbib and User:Anger22 have taken it upon themselves to go around on many different band pages to change genre delimiters (for no reason) to just incite edit wars. They give edit summaries like "it looks like a grocery list" or "this way has more space," to which I reply "bullshit," and even if it's true that is not a reason to change the genre delimiters. I wish they'd just settle this thing once and for all so there would be no argument over it one way or another. And of course I prefer line breaks as they've been around for way longer and were used for years on wikipedia before comma breaks came along and they seem to me to be more encyclopedic. But w/e, this isn't the place to argue this. But yeah, especially with a page like this where the genres are long, line breaks should be used. Comma breaks just make everything sloppy and look like utter crap. Not to mention you have to read and go to the next line which can just lead to confusion (granted, only if you're disabled). It's easier to read with line breaks. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 21:55, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Do those two editors start edit wars with each other often? Line breaks look much better for Opeth. I know that there is no such thing as "article ownership", but with edit wars on an FA, I believe it should be up to the nominator to settle it. That certainly does sound POVish, especially coming from me, the nominator and editor with most contributions, but that seems to be a smart way to settle this. Any ideas or comments? Burningclean [speak] 22:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I think you misunderstood. My fault. Both those users are edit warring with me mostly. They have been going around changing pages to comma breaks. I don't mind what you're talking about, though. It is a little POV-ish, but idk any other solutions. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I see. What do you mean "NOW I'll shoot myself"? Burningclean [speak] 22:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

??? I haven't edited this article since September , 2006. And that was a vandalism revert. I see no reason for the personal attack? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 22:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Was that to me or Navnløs? Burningclean [speak] 22:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Please stop distracting me from shooting myself. And to Anger22: Are you serious? My words could not have possibly wounded you. Why would you care? That wasn't even an attack. You've already personally attacked me. I talked to you and I was completely cordial and you were totally insulting to me. Well if you read what I said carefully I never mentioned that you edited Opeth. Just that you had edit warred with me. Now let me get this over with, damnit! Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:50, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Navlos you were the one who cast dispersions against my username on a talk page of an article that I haven't edited in over a year and a half. Editors with personal agendas tend to detract from encyclopedia building. I think this is a very good article BTW. Kudos to whoever contributed to its FA. I have worked on many and I know it isn't an easy task. Carry on. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 22:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Keep in mind we're trying to rach a consensus on line breaks or commas. Ha ha, I worked on it with copyediting help from Skeletor2112 by the way. Thanks ;p Burningclean [speak] 22:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Skeletor is a very good editor. But I haven't spoken with hi since November, 2006. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Heck yes he is. He also helped me with Alice in Chains. Burningclean [speak] 23:12, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Couldn't help but notice you cleverly and conveniently did not even attempt to answer my questions Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 23:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Didn't figure it was worth the time since you were about to shoot yourself anyways. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, sir, you are a master of avoiding, I'll give you that. Care to elaborat in defense of yourself at all? Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 23:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

What exactly am I defending again on this article about Opeth. Did you disagree with my vandalism revert of September 2006? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, wow, wow, man you are good. I suppose it's too hard to look a quarter of an inch or so up, so I will elaborate myself. I speak of my paragraph right above, which I will conveniently move for you. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 23:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
“ Oh, now you're trying to act all high and mighty (no surprise there; I've dealt with some pompous wikipedians during my time here on wikipedia). I didn't cast anything over your username, I said facts. I didn't say who was "bad," only that myself and two other users had been edit warring on a variety of articles. You say people shouldn't have agendas, but then what's with the changing to comma breaks on genre delimiters here and there? Like on Cynic or Iced Earth or Amon Amarth (shall I go on?). Yes, this article is a great one and a shining example to other articles (line breaks included). Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 23:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC) ”
You shouldn't alter previous talk page discussion. That can get you a vandalism warning. As for your comment I am still confused. Amon Amarth?? I reverted vandalism on that page earlier today. A revert that took it back to a version including formatting with line breaks. Are you against this vandalism revert? If you look at the two thousand or so edits I have made in the last week or two you will see several page reverts that go back to revisions done by you. Again, using your preference for formatting. I have read all discussions across many talk pages related to this minor little piece of formatting. And the consensus clearly shows that the simple commas is preferred over any other spacing. If an infobox requires a correction with regards to dab links, or formatting that goes against set guidelines set by the music project then I will go ahead and edit as per consensus and remove the unencyclopedic 'grocery listing'. And if I see an edit that has no constructive merit and is only added because of personal pov or outright vendetta against other editors... then that gets a revert because it's pretty much the same as trolling. This article contains citations for its included genres (which looks stupid since all cited material should be in the main article and not the box) But, since the citations exist, likely to divert an edit wat, then they look fine in the extended listing. But if the citations weren't there then the article should conform to consensus. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prog death

I've removed prog death as it just redirects to tech death. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 03:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)