Talk:Operation Sharp and Smooth

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Contents 1 Timeline 2 POV 3 Approximately 200 elite commando 4 "Fast-roped"?! 5 Caualities 6 Success? 7 2nd raid 8 Fair use rationale for Image:IDFcommandoBaalbek.jpg

[edit] Timeline

Believe it began late on 1 August, check the military where I placed some details Military operations of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict 82.29.227.171 16:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Right. 89.0.169.123 16:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This story is narrated from Israel viewpoint.--Sa.vakilian 09:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes. It's completely fucked. I'm in the process of neutering the POV right now.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 22:47, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Approximately 200 elite commando

Are you sure abount that? I seems like 200 troops took part in the operation, but there were much fewer comando troops... 89.0.243.231 13:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I see your point. For now I'm seeing news sources reporting it as "200 commandos," I guess we should try to find the original IDF press release for confirmation. --Bingman06 17:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

It cant be 200 troops since they used only 2 CH-53 helos. Maximum 110. And also it officially claimed that Sayeret Matkal and Shaldag participated the raid. http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=7&docid=55483.EN - video. http://www.hnn.co.il/index.php?module=albums;task=view;id=993 - pics from IDF.

How do you know only 2 CH-53 helos were used? Also Sayeret Matkal, basically means Special Forces of the General Staff Unit while Shaldag is an Israeli special forces from the Air Force. Richardmiami 03:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Fast-roped"?!

What does "fast-roped" mean? Especially as they seem to have done it over the Med while re-fuelling (or is that just poor sentence construction?)? Please refrain from military jargon. Best regards Thomas Blomberg 01:38, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Fast-roped refers to the method of disembarking the helicopter when arriving at its destination. Rather than land the large CH-53 helicopters then open the rear door for the crew to exit, they helicopter hovers a a couple of feet off the ground and the crew disembark by sliding down on ropes from the side doors of these large helicopters. That way, the helicopter does not have to stay too long in a "hot zone" and can quickly exit without maximum speed. Richardmiami 04:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caualities

This article is not NPOV, in the casualities box its mentioned that Hezbolla suffered 18 dead, however the only bodies shown on TV were those of civilians & chidren, how would the IDF be sure he killed 18 fighters, i doubt in a commando raid you have time to count the dead bodies, have a cup of tea may be, then withdraw before reinforcements arrive, as for the prisoners, Hezbolla announced that they were civilians & i tend to believe that for more than a reason: at the beggining of the war Israelis captured what they claimed to be 2 hezbolla fighters, hezbolla denounced that, 3 days later the 2 men were released & IDF declared they were civilians. In this raid, one of the captured is a 65 year old grocery owner whose name is Hasan Nasralla, that shows what kind of evidence IDF has against these ( hezbolla Fighters). so please stop refering to israeli figures since its all for propaganda purposes.

Both sides are engaging in heavy propaganda. In general when sources do not agree about something, we should put in both versions and be clear about who says what. Of course when something is retracted that changes things. Dsol 17:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Again, towards the end of the war, Israel announced that it was holding some lebanese civilians (snatched) during the conflict & that they are to be released, these might as well be the same individuals kidnapped during this operation, now i tried changing the wording in the casualities box & it seems somebody is changing it back.to those i say the following: If you are so sure that those killed & captured were in fact hezbolla fighters ( some of the killed are less than 5 years old & among the captured are above 60 years old elders) go ahead & present some facts other than biased IDF sources, if not, stop acting like a pigheaded, propaganda directed politician, your government already massacred these poor souls, have some decency & refrain from using their memory for showing off & covering your failure.

[edit] Success?

The operation objectives were: Assassinate Hezbollah Leader, and locate the arsenal, not capture someone by the name Hassan Nasserallah, who isn't THE Hassan Nasserallah. In my humble opinion, this operation was a complete and utter failure.

Sure it was a failure, though its funny to see that in every battle during this conflict propagandists on wikipedia are using the terms (israeli success) & (israeli victory) while the outcome of the war itself was an ( israeli fuckup)..of course the israeli fuckup was obvious for all observers except for Mr. Bush & equally intelligent species.

How do you know what the objectives of the operation were? Are you a member of the Israeli General Staff? The Result as "Mission Failure" seems to be POV violation right now. It is not known what the mission was and whether the objectives were met. I suggest changing the Result to "Unknown". --68.161.176.76 (talk) 23:02, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the Result to "Unclear" which is what it has been for a while. --68.161.176.76 (talk) 23:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd raid

Should the date, results and casualties from this raid be added to the infobox ?imi2 07:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I thinks yes, because the Battle of Montecassino where 4 or 5 waves of attacks and all pf them are in the same battlebox. Merge the 2 raids into one battlebox

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:IDFcommandoBaalbek.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)