Talk:One-sided overhand bend

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[edit] Binder's knot???

I moved this page from "Binder's knot" because I can't find any evidence that anyone calls it that. Rracecarr 21:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I just removed (once again) all references to "Binder's knot" aside from the image label. If you can find a single reference calling this knot a binder's knot, which is not derived from, and does not link to, Wikipedia or the image in this article, rv me. If none can be found, makes sense to assume "Binder's knot" is an error. Rracecarr 18:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not 100% certain, but I suggest the following reason that the name "Binder's knot" became associated at some point with the overhand bend. ABOK #246 and #1236 both show a form of Overhand bend that a mechanical harvesting machine uses when binding sheaves of grain. About this form of overhand bend Ashley says "The knot tied by the mechanical binder is an Overhand Bend with bights tucked instead of the ends...", and "...It is impractical to tie this knot for the purpose by hand." Both times it is illustrated in ABOK, this machine-tied overhand bend is listed immediately after a knot called the "Binder knot" which was historically used for binding wheat by hand. While used for a similar purpose the knot named "Binder knot" is definitely not any sort of Overhand bend. I concur with leaving this name out of the article unless other evidence comes to light. --Dfred 19:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] What is the name of this knot?

The title calls it a One-sided overhand bend, but in the article it's referred to as an Offset Overhand Bend. I'm not sure where the Offset Figure of Eight Bend fits in either... Note that I removed one para. that appeared to me to be either duplicate info., or be irrelevant. I've flagged it for expert attention. Smalljim 14:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Your right the name should be consistent in the article, and also it currently does not fit the current layout standards for WikiProject Knots and the content does need editing. Please remember though in any article on knots their may be many names for the same knot: that may even vary by region, materials used in tying, or who is tying it. On this particular knot part of WikiProject Knots is currently reviewing where to place common knot structures to their functions so if merging is to be considered. I would recommend considering where the specific knot Overhand bend belongs in the Overhand knot family leaving a brief mention and link to EDK, and moving the bulk of EDK to a page describing the list of knots that are called that EDK (their are several). Side not I think the main page for EDK should be European Death Knot and EDK and Euro death-knot should be redirect pages to European Death Knot. WikipedianYknOK 10:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I also agree that consolidation (and rewriting) is necessary. I'm not sure how far your suggesting going in consolidating the overhand-based knots, but they are probably too varied a group to cover in one article. I suggest we take that more general discussion to Talk:Overhand knot.
The traditional names for this knot are (from Ashley) "Overhand bend", "Thumb knot", (via Bowling) "Openhand knot", (and from Day) "Creeler's knot". I agree that Overhand bend is probably the most straight-forward and descriptive of these. While there are other bends made with overhand knots (e.g. water knot, single fisherman's, etc.) I don't think there's much likelihood for confusion.
And finally, the proposed merger with EDK... Your observation that more than one knot has been called EDK is reason enough to avoid merging it into this page. A brief section in this article with a "See main article" note would probably be the way to go. The idea of changing the name of the EDK page to "European Death Knot" is less clear to me. My sense is that when the term was coined, it was as simply "Euro". If that's the case, then renaming it with the full word would be like calling someone whose legal name was Beth by the name Elizabeth; correct more in theory than reality. But since I don't know the entire history of the term EDK, I would be glad to be corrected. --Dfred 12:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
That sounds logical, which page is a redirect really has no bearing on the material.
The discussion clarifying the consolidation of closely related knots and variations sounds good. WikipedianYknOK 15:20, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parts of article history 11:13, 28 March 2007 remaining that need verification

  • "It can be made more secure by tying off one end around the other with an overhand stopper knot, snug to itself."
  • Deaths associated with either knot. (preferably total overall and/or average per year)
WikipedianYknOK 11:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)