Talk:On the Road

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[edit] Excessive detail?

Anyone who's read this book knows there's a short way to describe it and a long way. The short way is to describe it as "Sal Paradise's adventures across America". The long way is what's written on the webpage. It's ridiculous to try to shorten a novel this dense.24.86.144.101 00:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


Don t know where to put it, but beautiful hint to 9-11:

"Dean had a sweater wrapped around his ears to keep warm. He said we were a band of Arabs coming in to blow up New York." (page 112 - Penguin Edition. For all others: At the end of the second chapter in Part Two of the book.) 88.73.57.205 16:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I noticed that too as I was reading. Underlined it and everything! 24.86.144.101 00:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


Is it worth mentioning you can read the book online with google print?--84.92.25.113 2 July 2005 23:22 (UTC)


The Kerouac page says it was written in two weeks, this says three

  • My understanding is that it was written on sheets of canvas (for painting), glued together. Just what I heard, at least. 24.86.144.101 00:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


If you read the introduction in the 1991 Penguin edition by Ann Charters - Kerouac's biographer - it clearly gives information as to the time it took to type out, three weeks is correct. Kerojack, Argenta 15:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


Sal Paradise, the narrator of On the Road and the character identified as Kerouac's alter ego Identified by whom? Did Kerouac say this specifically? Max 097 02:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe that he did. All of the characters in the book have analogues in Kerouac's life. | Klaw ¡digame! 02:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popular culture references

  • I just commented out several references to Kerouac that aren't references to On the Road. This isn't the right article for references just to the author.
  • In addition, do we really need to mention every sighting of On the Road? If there's no standard for inclusion, it might be better to move this section off to List of references to On the Road. | Klaw ¡digame! 19:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Removal of information

RasputinAXP, why did you remove the information I provided, connecting Dean Moriarty to Neal Cassady? This is mentioned nowhere else on the page and is important.

I also feel that the links I provided to On the Road book covers and musical references, which you also removed, are relevant and useful. Pitoucat 16:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree...I also believe the fact that Dean Moriarty was gay is important.

I don't think Dean was gay. At no point did he suggest this.Nachoman123 07:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Ginsberg (Karlo Marx) was gay, and it is rumoured that Neal Cassady (who is portrayed by Dean Moriarty) was gay... but it's not substantial enough to make much of a claim (a friend once put it like this "Did you really think Dean and Karlo spent all night just talking!?") 24.86.144.101 00:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC) July, 29, 2007

[edit] Splitting off pop-references

The 'References in Pop-culture' section is getting rather long. I suggest it be split into its own article, with the three most notable references remaining on this page. risk 23:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I fully agree. Stephenjh 09:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree. Mattbrundage 21:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't we just delete pop-references entirely? It seems like most of the items on the list are just some random band quickly mentioning Kerouac in one of their songs, not something important enough to be mentioned at all. Max 097 07:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

They certainly don't belong in this article. See Jack Kerouac in popular culture -- Beardo 09:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Date Written

Does anyone have an actual time period when it was written? This only states when published.

First published in 1955 and 1957, according to my copy. Perhaps small portion were released early, thus the two dates. 74.12.78.138 15:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Summary

Everyone seems to be whining about the section on the plot but no one has done much about it. I've put in an hour, that's all I'll likely give. Ironically, this discussion page is just as bad with its unsigned posting and general messiness. I'm editing this as best as I can as well.

Also, it is clear that the plot summary was a book report. If you read Wiki suggestions you will see that it says that "most undergraduate level essays are fine for Wikipedia." The idea being that undergrads can paste the fifty or so essays they have written onto Wikipedia and we can edit them from there. The person who wrote the plot summary has done more to advance this article than anyone who complained but did nothing to improve the section themselves. It needs a lot work, but I think its better that nothing.

Below is the dog's breakfast of previous postings on the plot summary section. 74.12.78.138 15:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Summary (ii)

The plot section read more like a discussion than an outline, full of opinion a lot of which I don't agree with

[edit] Plot Summary (iii)

This entry is abysmal.

The bulk of the entry is a plot summary that doesn't even begin to explore the nature of Jack's writing. Jack was a poet and in writing the book he was trying to get an internal rhythm going, the way a road rolls on forever. There is much speculative commentary that has no place in the summary (I am working on Orpheus Emerged right now, so maybe someone could tell me how to join the novel project) and again, it seems that the author has read the book and formed an opinion and then written it. OK, they cite the Penguin Edition of 1991, in the front there is a foreward by Ann Charters that would be a great source of verification of real life details, since Ann knew Jack personally and even agreed (with John Clellon Holmes to put together an autobiographical anthology of Jack's work.

On The Road the wiki needs rewriting, the book cover is just wrong, it should always be the first edition hardback book cover OR the cover of the cited work, in this case the 1991 Penguin Edition. There is a strong element of jazz running right through some of the scenes in the book which is essential to the understanding of Sal's and Dean's characters. No mention of Bull Lee, Ed Dunkel, Remi Boncceur and a few others as well.

I am quite happy to work on this wiki given half a chance. Let me know? Thanks Kerojack, Argenta 08:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plot Summary (iv)

I agree with the others, it reads more like a book report than a summary of the plot. It deals with points too specific and is too long for someone, such as myself, who knows nothing about the book but wants a quick overview before investigating further. Cbotman 06:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone just fix it already, it's terrible.

[edit] Plot Summary (v)

The Story section reads more like a discussion of On the Road than a Wikipedia entry. Shouldn't it be more focused on the actual plot? If we're going to discuss the themes of the book, that should be a separate section. I already removed a paragraph, but that section probably needs a total rewrite.

I thought the main character (Kerouac) *was* homosexual... that there is no need to say something to the effect of, "his interest in Sal could be interpreted as closet homosexuality"

I dont think this should be included either, its opinion.


[edit] under construction title

I have removed the under construction tag, as it has been there since April 19 and it doesn't appear that the section is still actively being worked on. Heavy Metal Cellisttalkcontribs

[edit] who is the "last psychatrist"?

It's an interesting article, but is it really notable enough for inclusion? ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.12.119.154 (talk) 00:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It has nothing to do with Notability

128.12.119.154 has removed the following section from the article with the comment "Who is this guy anyways? Alexa has him spiking from nonexistent as a result of this link. removed for being nonnotable"

Here is the material that was removed:

The "Last Psychiatrist" says that On the Road is a primer on how to be a narcissist and that the book isn't about freedom or growth but denial. "The notion that they're trying to experience things or learn things or grow is precisely wrong. The experiences are incidental, the learning completely absent; the real purpose of the trip is to say that you went on the trip."[1]

I have reverted the article to include the deleted information for the following reasons:

  • It is not a matter of notability but of reliability of the source. You don't delete someone's additions because of notability. You would delete an entire article because of "lack of notability" of the subject. Notability and Reliability of the Source are two entirely different things: Notability refers to topics that are deemed worthy of an article in Wikipedia. "Notability is an inclusion criterion based on encyclopedic suitability of a topic." The article "On the Road" is notable. That is not what we are discussing here. Reliability of the source refers to "1) the piece of work that is being cited, 2) the creator of the work (the author or artist), and 3) the publisher or location where it is to be found (a website, book, album or painting). All three can affect the reliability of the work." I would contend that the source is reliable. The writer is a medical doctor with the speciality in psychiatry. His criticism of "On the Road" refers specifically to Kerouac's "narcissism" and his "denial," two psychological concepts that are within the area of expertise of the author.
  • 128.12.119.154 also says that "Alexa has him spiking from nonexistent as a result of this link." That is simply untrue and even if it were what does this have to do with deleting the section? The alexa spike occurred in mid-September when the "Last Psychiatrist" had one of his posts on the front page of Reddit. The addition to the "On the Road" article happened on October 5. There is simply no connection between the two. But even if Wikipedia caused a spike in someone's Alexa ratings, how is this a justification for deleting the material? Are we to delete all material from Wikipedia that contains a citation? I don't follow this argument.

The remarks are reliable and pertinent to a critique of "On the Road." In fact, prior to those remarks being added there was no Criticism Section in the article.

And for the record, I am not "the Last Psychiatrist" and I do not know "the Last Psychiatrist." Best Regards, -- Reservoirhill (talk) 22:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plot summary

I've removed the {{plot}} tag from the plot summary. After considering it for a few weeks, I think the current version goes some way towards doing justice to a work that (for once) merits the term "iconic", and I don't think it would be a good idea to trim it simply because it's a little over our ideal length. It should be as long as it needs to be, and it should be written in a style that makes the reader want to read it, and perhaps to read the work itself. In my opinion it succeeds at the former, at least. --Tony 00:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)