Talk:On-board diagnostics

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[edit] Advertorial blog

216.138.192.60, please stop inserting your advertorial blog. --Treekids (talk) 18:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

  • _ Fine, but you have to remove all other links that sell products (indirectly):

[[1] [[2] [[3] [[4] [[5] [[6] [[7] [[8]

Their product pages are just one click away, just like my blog. Wikipedia does have a double standard. Please remove all pages that have indirect advertisement like the pages above. These page are not .edu and are for profit. Then I will stop putting my blog. 216.138.192.60 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.138.192.56 (talk) 04:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Since you've identified other offenders, please feel free to remove them. This is not my focus- I fix what I come across, and I hope others do the same. That's mostly how Wikipedia evolves into a higher form. But kudos to those who take the time to do a thorough job! Sadly, I am not one of them. --Treekids (talk) 18:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm not talking bad about you Treekids. I am starting to know how Wikipedia works. Lets just hope It is fair to everyone. Thanks.

[edit] Related data

There are a lot of external links, and seems (IMHO) to be to some extent because

  • there are those who are trying to sell high-margin code scanners and gauges
  • there is a lot of information that seems to be only available in these vendors' sites.

I'm wondering if it might be wise to incorporate here or in a couple of "List Of" pages information like...

  • For my make and model of car, do I have a variant of OBD available and if so, which one?
  • Which cables are available, and which software applications, and what are their system requirements?
  • What code-reader devices are available, and can they reset codes?
  • What leave-in OBD readers (gauges) are available, and can they display MPG?

--Treekids (talk) 02:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, so I went ahead and linked to new List Of articles. Those who agree please start collecting data there and retiring the vendor links a bit? --Treekids (talk) 02:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Time for a new category?

With all the different onboard computer systems used in automobiles since the early 1980s, they should be collected under their own category.

There's OBD-II, OBD-I, Ford's EEC-IV and others used prior to OBD-I as well as all the systems used in other countries.

–I would like to add some information on the consult diagnostics interface used in Nissans between about 1990 and 2000. There was a period after about 1985 where the different car manufacturers had different systems, not cross compatible. Maybe if there was some type of menu to other pages explaining each of these systems would be good. The information will be helpful as I get many questions on the Nissan system. Im new to this, how do I go about doing this? ZCarJase 06:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Items such as EEC-*, Bosch Motronic, Denso Meden, Toyota TCCS, etc., would be appropriate for a seperate article, since it is a specific piece of hardware. The "OBDs" (ie OBDI, OBDII, EOBD) refer to standards of monitoring and communication- the hardware used to carry this out is irrelevant. As far as getting specific to each manufacturer, that is very difficult since those who have access to such proprietary information are usually bound by some form of confidentiality agreement. D2Ben 19:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is diagnosed, and how?

I would like to see a list of diagnostic systems, and the functions of each. It would also be nice to have an explanation of how they work and how to perform the diagnostics.

[edit] Legislation?

This page needs more info on the legislation and history which lead to adoption of OBD... from what I understand it was originally required by California emission control legislation, and later became a national requirement. KWH 03:58, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

My understanding was that the CARB required OBD (and later OBD-II) for all vehicles sold in California, and it didn't make sense for manufacturers to make different versions for California and the rest of the US, so they just incorporated it into all of their vehicles. Mouser 03:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CAN bus before 2004

The article says: Vehicles sold in the United States were not allowed to use CAN for diagnostics prior to model year 2004. Is this really true? I believe my cars (two are 1999 models) use CAN for diagnostics. Can someone point to the legislation that does not allow this? --Mikeblas 07:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Modifications to Malfunction and Diagnostic System Requirements for 2004 and Subsequent Model-Year Passenger Cars, Light-Duty Trucks, and Medium-Duty Vehicles and Engines (OBD II), Section 1968.2, Title 13, California Code Regulations
(3.4) ISO 15765-4. This protocol shall be allowed on any 2003 and subsequent model year vehicle and required on all 2008 and subsequent model year vehicles. All required emission-related messages using this protocol shall use a 500 kbps baud rate.
Vvmaks 18:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
CAN has been around for some time, and has been used for inter-module communication, and some used it for diagnostics as well. However, it was not supported under the OBD-II standard until 2003, meaning there also had to be another line (J1850, K-line) to support OBD-II. The addition of the CAN data lines to the DLC forced Chrysler to relocate and reconfigure their SCI diagnostic lines, which were using the previously SAE-unassigned (or, manufacturer-discretionary) pins at the DLC. (See SAE J2610, Ch. 6.3) D2Ben 18:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

This article seems a little heavy on external links. Wikipedia isn't a shopping guide; so should these be removed? -- Mikeblas 02:40, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

They definitely need to be removed. Also, the links to DTC listings should be moved to the [Table_of_OBD-II_Codes|appropriate page]. I'm planning a major re-write of this page, as it is in dire need of repair, but I keep having to put it off. I may get to it this weekend; if I start the re-write, I'll post here to request that people hold off on modifying it for a few hours. Mouser 15:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

...and 10 minutes later... I'm doing the re-write now. It will take me an hour or two at least, and all sections of this page will be mostly re-written. Please refrain from editing this article until 18:00 UTC today if possible. Thanks! Mouser 15:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, my initial attempt at a complete overhaul is now live. Have at it. Mouser 18:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Yay for Mouser!! Thanks! I tidied up a couple of links and I'll make a copyedit pass. What you've done is awesome. -- Mikeblas 20:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links to your favorite scan tools and related products

Wikipedia is not a repository of links; please resist the temptation to post a link to your favorite scan tool in the article. I have moved all of the links to specific scan tools and software from the article to here. Feel free to add a link at this location.

[edit] Commercially available scan tools

  • DEC SuperScan Link to DEC Automotive SuperScan website. The best[citation needed] European automotive professional scan tool.
  • BR-3, supports J1850 VPW/PWM and ISO91941-2.
  • CarChip, supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN).
  • CarCheckup, Consumer system with easy to understand[citation needed] diagnostic recommendations and driver performance logs using a powerful Internet based system . CarCheckup (talk) 17:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Dyno-Scan, supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN).
  • ElmScan 5, supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN).
  • Car-Pal, supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN). Bluetooth or serial.
  • ElmScan ISO/PWM/VPW, inexpensive single-protocol OBDII scan tools.
  • OBD-2 Vehicle Explorer, supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN)
  • PowrTuner, supports J1850 VPW flash programming
  • Mobydic OBDII tester with OE90C2600 J1979 mode 1..9 & 9600 baud rs232 in enclosure
  • EngineCheck EOBD and OBDII Scan Tool (USB or serial) supports J1850 VPW/PWM, ISO9141-2, ISO14230 (KWP2000), and ISO15765-4 (CAN)
  • Autologic - Factory-quality[citation needed] scan tools with outstanding BMW coverage.
  • Launch X-431 - The world's best-selling[citation needed] diagnostic tool.
  • AeroForce Tech Interceptor Scan Gauge for GM VPW vehicles - Reads and resets fault codes, scans regular and enhanced OBD-2 PID's
  • ScanGauge
  • X-Gauge for smart® - Convert the cockpit clock of your smart® fortwo into a high-tech engine monitoring instrument! (works also in the smart® roadster)
  • Atek, Source for OBD-II cable assemblies
  • Carplugs, Source for OBD2 connectors, OBDii Cables and Scan Tools.
  • OBD2Cables.com, Source for OBDII cables
  • Nissan consult-I diagnostics (1990-2000) - PC based diagnostics interface cable for windows, MAC and Linux.

[edit] Software

[edit] Link Farm

Wikipedia is not a link farm. Please stop adding links and reverting the deletion of the table of links. Edit it here, if you'd like. -- Mikeblas 15:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

MikeBlas, here are some more link farms for you to change FPGA Graphic_design Flash_Memory just to name a few, I'll find more if you'd like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.84.207 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for the pointers. I had a look at Flash Memory, and it had only one commercial link so I removed it. I left a note in the FPGA topic about cleaning it up, but I haven't had time to check out Graphic Design. You might want to do it yourself -- you can edit it just like you've edited this article. There's a great article on the meta site about when you should link externally, and will help you understand what links are appropriate. -- Mikeblas 03:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


No thanks, I'm done contributing to wikipedia. People add incorrect info, such as OBD 1.5, which is a slang term for OBD-1 with an OBD-2 connector, not a protocol. It still uses the OBD-1 protocol, not OBD-2. That incorrect info stays. Useful information is shunned. That shows this place is too inaccurate to be of any use for dealing with engine/powertrain computers. There is much more useful information out there that could make this article incredibly useful (not links) and its staying out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.84.207 (talk • contribs)
That's too bad. Wikipedia is what you make it. -- Mikeblas 18:56, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
There, fixed. Could be a little better, but at least this is pointed out now. D2Ben 19:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scan Tools

This section is pretty bad -- no exposition of the subject, and POV. How are PC-based scan tools less expensive -- I suppose that's assuming you have a portable computer already? Are all stand-alone scan tools incapable of reprogramming, and if so, why? Where's the "advantages of stand-alone scan tools" -- surely there must be some?

A few links to examples of each kind would be good too, which would probably be external links.

-- jhf 04:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Anybody still watching this? The section is bad. Based on experience as first a user and later a developer for both kinds, the only advantage to PC-based is not having to worry about physical storage limitations of the device on a PC. On a PC, though, there's no telling what other software may interfere with the application, opening up a new support problem. There are pros and cons each way, ultimately the end user must decide what works best for them. This whole section can probably be removed or at least heavily edited. D2Ben 15:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organize the scan tools

Can we organize the links above into nice lists with marketing terms removed at the pages below...

--Treekids (talk) 02:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Environment

Is it not mentioned, that OBDII is only used for Environmental reasons?

Essentially, yes. Codes, tools, communication, etc. were standardized to make it easier for shops to diagnose and reapir emissions related faults. D2Ben 19:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ALDL Category??

would an ALDL or OBD Category be useful? for a list of cars that use it--DarkAxi0m 15:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

It's possible that ALDL could recieve its' own page. A list of cars using it, though, I think would be excessive- basically, every General Motors-built vehicle prior to ~1996 (at least for the US market) (remember, ALDL is a GM term for their diagnostic connector). Describing the variations and pin assignments I think would be more useful.--D2Ben 15:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I started a stub article at ALDL aka ALDL for the pre-ODB-standard material. --Treekids (talk) 02:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ODB-->OBD

I changed ODB to OBD at various occurences. However, there is also an internal link using ODB instead of OBD. I quick-fixed it, but eventually one should rename the pertinent page (I don't know how to do this). Peeceepeh (talk) 10:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manufacturer Specific Diagnostics?

Would it be suitable to place manufacturer specific diagnostic information (pre-OBD II) in this section? For example, the Nissan Consult protocol (covering new Nissan car models built from 1989-1999), Subaru Select, VAG? etc. Also I guess, manufacturer specifc OBD-II extensions/codes? NPickett (talk) 11:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)