Talk:Omaha, Nebraska/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Sports requests

Could somebody please pull together an article on Sports in Omaha, Nebraska? There is content on this main page, on the History in Omaha, Nebraska page, and in a few other places... I would search individual teams' articles for content. For an example see Sports in Chicago or Sports in Seattle. - Freechild 01:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Omaha City Council merger

Against. This page will allow for a history to be written, along with notable laws and other detailed information to be shared. Merging it with the main Omaha page will only result in it be seperated out again in the future. - Freechild 00:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I withdraw my proposal, now that there's a (yet to be written) page in the Omaha template that the Omaha City Council page can be merged into. It should go there, along with List of mayors of Omaha. – Swid (talk | edits) 20:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Swid, is there a formal process for removing the tag? - Freechild 14:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I'm removing the tag from the page. - Freechild 01:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Omaha Population

If I'm not mistaken, the Omaha city population was listed as 390,007 in the 1970 census, not the 2000 census. Am I wrong? Equinox137 16:13, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

2000 census states population of 390,007. 2003 Current Population Survey states population of 378,815. Though the Census Population Finder lists the population as 404,267 -- though this may be for the Metro. In any event, perhaps we should correct the Demographics to reflect 2K3 census count as opposed to 2K... anyone, anyone... Bueller... --Mawhamba 17:46, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
The American Community Survey number excludes people living in institutions, dorms, and other group quarters; in addition, the 2003 ACS estimate is lower than the 2000-2002 estimates. As always, the only Census population count that truly means anything is the x0 census; the Census Bureau seems to be quite happy producing contradictory estimates in the interim. In my opinion, all the information in the Demographics section should use 2000 figures, since it's the only complete and reliable data set.
Also...if anyone can show me where the information that ranks the Omaha-CB metro as the 52nd largest in the US, I'd appreciate it. Everything I've read places it at 60th (the 2000 Census rank).
--Swid 23:23, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've read in places that it's 48th. Equinox137 16:25, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I checked the numbers and updated to show the 2004 Census estimate for the city population, which is 409,416, in the Template box and the lead paragraph. I have not checked the 800,000+ metro population for accuracy. I also recalculated the population density in the template box -- it was way off. The population stats in various parts of this article are somewhat in disarray -- the 2003 population history figure needs to be reviewed -- I changed the city figure to the 2003 Census estimate of 404,114 for now, but did not verify the metro population. Also, I left the Demographic section alone as that data should only use 2000 Census data. Frankly I wouldn't mind if the whole article stuck with the 2000 figures with only a brief mention of the 2004 estimate. Nick Storm 17:05, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

The most current population estimates are 409,419 in the city (which ranks it 43rd in the nation) and 807,305 for the Metropolitan Statistical Area (60th in the nation). I found these numbers here but I think you can find them anywhere.

FM radio station articles

It looks as if the links to the FM radio station articles point to the monikers. Somebody please change them to point to the callsigns. 66.245.124.50 03:44, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. [[User:Rdsmith4|User:Rdsmith4/sig]] 15:12, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
But I don't know the stations' callsigns. 66.245.103.8 15:56, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think I caught most of the stations and inserted the callsigns. Hot 107.7/97.3 is a toughie because 107.7 is a translator to 97.3 KBLR. Guess I'll go with KBLR as the callsign when I get around to it. I'll flesh out the rest of radio and TV too at some point. Nick Storm

Hi folks. I removed the old link for Omaha area radio stations and I added another one.

Do you think that adding a list of radio stations (maybe even television stations) to the article is a good idea?

KevinJ 01:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)KevinJ

Never mind, I saw that there were separate articles on radio and television.

KevinJ 01:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)KevinJ

Skyline Picture

I've posted a picture of the Omaha skyline at http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Omaha_skyline_humid_day.png -- it's somewhat poor given that the day was fairly humid (fancy that).

--Mawhamba 16:49, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Article Length

Does anyone else think this article's getting a bit lengthy? Any suggestions on how to go about diving it up -- I know the history section can get a lot longer, especially if one were to include information on Tom Dennison and his political machine. --Mawhamba 22:54, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Yup, many places for reduction, it seems the radio stations have gotten a bit out of hand. :) Perhaps breaking out a set of sub articles and summarizing on the main page is in order... NickVeys 05:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
The radio stations section and one or two others could warrant a sub-article of their own, I agree. I also personally think the list of law enforcement agencies is unnecessary -- one assumes that most incorporated municipalities have a police department and that most counties have a sheriff's department, no? The list doesn't supply much information over and above the fact that, yes, these counties and cities have law enforcement agencies just like most everywhere else in the U.S. Nick Storm 17:18, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I initiated the clean up of the article by eliminating most of the media section from the main article, and moving the items to separate sub-articles. --Mawhamba 10:11, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Re: Law Enforcement, I was looking at the article for Los Angeles, California--as an example of an entry for a big city, the Omaha Article seems to have a lot of bulleted items which are, in my opinion, unnecessary. In regards to the Law Enforcement section, I believe this sentiment holds true. Perhaps we could modify the Law and Government section as follows:

Legal System

Might not need this sections -- what's unique about Omaha's legal system?

Sister Cites

Move from bottom of article here.

--Mawhamba 10:29, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

More Cleanup Suggestions

Although this article contains a wealth of information about Omaha and the Omaha Metropolitan Area, perhaps that is, in-and-of itself a problem. This article is supposed to be about Omaha, Nebraska, not the Metropolitan Area. I think much of this article can be put into a separate article entitled "Omaha Metropolitan Area."

Additionally, much of the information contained within this article is simply bullets. Can we expand these lists into something that would make a good separate article. For example, the railroads section, under transport is well done, and could link to another article -- Railroad Tranport of Omaha, Nebraksa or perhaps Railroad History of Omaha, Nebraska--the section is not bulleted, though, as are many other sections (e.g. Famous People [is this section really needed, in full, in the main article?], Songs about Omaha [once again, really needed, in full?], Neighborhoods and Suburbs [could be mentioned briefly, but the meat, I would think, would go into the Omaha Metropolitan Area article]). There are numerous potential changes. I, however, do not want to start such a massive re-organization without consulting others first, though, as many people have contributed to this article and many people should have a say on its layout. --Mawhamba 10:36, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that is sorely needed for this article; fortunately, there's already an article that much of the Omaha metro information can be transferred into quite easily. I think the revamped articles should generally be along the lines of the Kansas City Metropolitan Area/Kansas City, Missouri division of information.
On a related note, the Omaha, Nebraska category *really* should be renamed Omaha, Nebraska metropolitan area (or something similar). --Swid 20:46, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Airports in the Omaha Metropolitan area

Is it really necessary to have a whole subsection simply for airports, or could we combine this all under Transportation? --Mawhamba 13:45, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Maybe a subsection under transportation will do since Omaha has three airports. Equinox137 4 July 2005 18:28 (UTC)

Pamida

An entry has been made under the Economy section of the Omaha, Nebraska article which needs to be cleared up. The case in point deals with suggesting that Pamida, a subsidiary of Green Bay, Wisconsin-based ShopKo Stores, Inc. Recently a reversion to a previous version of the Omaha, Neb. article was made, including Pamida as being "headquartered" in Omaha by Rdsmith4, with the justification that "Pamida was founded in Omaha and is an important part of its economic history." Regardless of whether Pamida was founded in Omaha, Nebraska or not (Pamida's history page suggests that the retail stores that were to eventually become Pamida, was opened, first, in Knoxville, Iowa -- see here), it is currently not headquartered in Omaha.

In any event, it is my opinion that Pamida needs to be listed elsewhere in this article. If Pamida was at one time headquarted in Omaha, that would be part of Omaha's history, it should not follow a statement such as, "Omaha is the home of the headquarters of a number of major corporations, including..." which is what precedes the listing of companies headquartered in Omaha. To me, and I would appreciate input on this, the statement "Omaha is the home of the headquarters of a number of major corporations, including..." suggests that the listed entities are presently headquartered in Omaha.

I would be open to the addition of another subsection listing companies founded and/or headquartered at one time in Omaha.

Anyone... anyone...

--Mawhamba 21:13, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Sure, put it in a different part of the article, but it certainly deserves a mention, having been founded by Rex Witherspoon, an Omaha resident "oracle", eccentric, namesake of Witherspoon Hall, etc. — Dan | Talk 21:43, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
Are there more companies, then, to stick in such a subsection? --Mawhamba 02:41, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Skyline Pic

Removed skyline pic posted by Ki-too as it may be a possible copyright violation. Image appears on Metropolitan Community College Website as well at http://www.mccneb.edu/presidentialsearch/images/Omahaphoto.jpg --Mawhamba 10:21, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject:Nebraska proposal

Would you like to help improve the quality of Nebraska-related articles? If so, reply on my talk page; I'd like to see if there is any interest in creating WikiProject:Nebraska. –Swid 16:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Omaha Sound Merger

I agree that this probably could be in the Omaha page as a Music in Omaha section (which then could spawn a daughter page) which would discuss things like Saddle Creek Records, 311, as well as the Rose Theatre, and Jazz on the Green. I always think the Omaha sound is an answer to the DC sound (Fugazi) or the Chapel Hill, an answer made by Saddle Creek artists (Cursive in particular), and it belongs there, not here (i mean not in any Omaha Sound page). Smmurphy 08:55, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear god please do not associate any of the unheard of and remarkably talentless bands listed in the "omaha sound" page with Omaha in general. They are awful and I hate to break it to people living outside of Omaha, but there is no such thing as an "omaha sound". I know the chip-on-the-shoulder-we're-a-big-city-too feeling many from Omaha have (I used to live there) but this is not the way to gain acceptance. -November 18. 2005.

I agree, they are non-notable. But that doesn't mean that there is not omaha scene, which could be discussed in greater length. Smmurphy 03:11, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I've merged this article into Music of Nebraska, which already has a section called Omaha sound, and the article now redirects there. Smmurphy 01:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • See Music in Omaha for the current content of this section, as well as other information about the topic. – Freechild (BoomCha) 20:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Schools

I removed Creighton Prep from the subsection on parochial schools; Prep is a Catholic Jesuit school completely autonomous from the Catholic Archdiocese. --Jose Bravo

Irish

What neighborhood of Omaha would be classified as an Irish neighborhood or as a neighborhood with a large Irish population? 75.3.4.54 00:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

If anywhere, it'd likely be in South Omaha. In any case, a large ethnic Irish neighborhood never developed in Omaha as it did for other ethnicities, as the era when Omaha grew rapidly was decades after the bulk of Irish immigration to the U.S. had already occured. – Swid (talk | edits) 00:52, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

That is surprising because so much of Omaha's population is Irish and the mayor is Irish. 75.3.4.54 00:21, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

German is the most common ancestry, followed by Irish. --Jack 06:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

North Omaha was an early neighborhood for Irish immigrants, followed there by Scandinavians, Germans, Greeks, Italians, Jews and African Americans from the South. (per Nebraska Studies, online. --Parkwells 16:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)--Parkwells 19:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Climate

I changed some of the information in the Climate section of the article. I could not find a link to Omaha weather information, so I added the one I found. I'll look more into this and see if I can find a better site.

KevinJ 02:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)KevinJ

Largest US City

I believe that Sitka, Alaska is the largest city (by area) in the US, as it has over 2700 square miles of incorporated area. New York would be the largest city based on population. The first line of text should be removed.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 162.6.226.167 (talk • contribs) .

The first line of the article makes no such claim; it states that Omaha is the largest city in Nebraska, a fact that is easily verifiable. – Swid (talk | edits) 13:38, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence reads, "Omaha is the largest city in the U.S. state of Nebraska." This is potentially confusing if you interpret the period at the end of U.S. as marking the end of the sentence; it then appears to say "Omaha is the largest city in the U.S." If the reader is not a native speaker of English, he or she may not realize that "state of Nebraska" is not a complete sentence on its own and is actually the last part of the first sentence. Maybe this could be reworded to avoid this confusion. —Bkell (talk) 23:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

North Omaha

"Predominantly an African-American neighborhood, North Omaha boasts a rich, diverse culture, and the highest crime rate."

Despite being a denizen of Omaha metro for a decade, I'm not sure I could identify anything "rich" about the culture of North Omaha. Do drug use and violence constitute a rich, diverse culture?

North O is the only neighborhood which receives this flowery attention. It's clearly not NPOV and it's not even accurate. Puskarm 18:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The historic cultural and social history of North Omaha is what makes it "rich"; this adjective is frequently used throughout Wikipedia, not as "flowery" attention, but rather as an adjective to imply the depth and breadth of a topic. Your perspective of the area might be enriched by actually learning about the area, rather than just watching TV news and listening to racist radio shows. - Freechild 19:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Defining North Omaha

Hey, I would like to hear what any of your thoughts are about the boundaries of North Omaha. The discussion is this. Thanks. - Freechild 21:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Redundancy

The section on Native American history has some redundancy that needs to be resolved. - Freechild 16:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

"Domestic terrorism" coverage exaggerated

This article gives sensationalistic coverage to "domestic terrorism" here in Omaha. While the action against the local grocery may have been racially motivated (as I recall, motives or even suspects haven't been found yet), it doesn't (at least, not yet) amount to "terrorism." The robbery and fire were not done in a high-profile neighborhood, nor one infamous for that kind of happening. The most that can be known and reasonably assumed is that at a couple of people held a grudge against a man for whatever reason, and so they robbed his store and set a fire.

The subsection headline and buzzword descriptions are overblown compared to the actual issue. This is from the perspective of a 10-year north Omaha resident who also happens to have friends living on the opposite side of the block on which the grocery stood. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vintagejonny (talk • contribs) 05:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

Local media outlets cited in the article dispute your assumptions about the neighborhood where the incident occured, on three points: (1)Omaha, Nebraska does not have any "high profile" neighborhoods. East Omaha is as eligible for that title as any other, particularly for its proximity to Eppley Airfield and its hitory; (2) As the citations in the East Omaha article illustrate, the area is renowned for its historic racism extending at least to 1971, and; (3) More than a "grudge", this so-called incident is the culmination of a campaign of negative activities that had specific racist statements either spoken or written on the building directed towards the store in question that began only after the store was bought by a man of African descent. I would suggest that anyone with concerns regarding the language of this section make appropriate edits using reliable sources. While residency in North Omaha or East Omaha is meaningful, it does not make your friends' opinions a citable source. Local media outlets have interviewed community residents, as cited in the East Omaha article, and numerous sources have indeed stated that this was not an isolated incident, and that "yes", there is a pattern of violence directed towards black people in East Omaha. The term domestic terrorism is used here in accordance to Wikipedia's article on the topic. - Freechild 19:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean "in accordance to WP article", as the article (terrorism, domestic terrorism is a redirect) is clear that there are many definitions. Looking at definition of terrorism there is, for instance, the definition generally used y the UN:
"Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperilled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought," (Schmid, 1988)
This incident doesn't fit this definition as the event doesn't seem to be symbolic and the target of violence was the direct target of the action. The evidence points to at least two people wanted him out of the neighborhood who perpetrated these events. The thing is, the word "terrorism" is so emotionally charged, and for many it is offensive to be labeled a terrorist or to even have terrorism associated with your name. Thus when someone from an area reads about an event in their neighborhood and sees the word terrorism, they want to deny that such a terrible thing could happen so close to home. If you have a citation calling the event terrorism, mentioning it is ok. Otherwise, all the sources I've seen say "racial tension".
The thing is, the event is being grouped with the Rice-Poindexter case, which is more often called domestic terrorism, mostly since the BPP was called a terrorist group. The section title is probably a holdover from that, but this example shows that the word "terrorism" might not be the right one. Smmurphy(Talk) 19:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree, and will make the change accordingly. - Freechild 20:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

west Omaha boundary

I saw that the boundary of west was changed from 72 to 114th. I changed it with another edit, but I want to make sure that 72 is the concensus (is their a citation for it, perhaps). I mean, the neighborhoods around Northwest High School are certainly west, right. Anyway, this doesn't seem to be something to vote on, it needs a citation. Smmurphy(Talk) 21:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Incident in North Omaha

Is this encyclopedic? Does it belong on the main Omaha page? I'm putting it back for now, but I think if anything, it should go to a history of Omaha page (even though it is ongoing) or Civil rights in Nebraska or something like that. Otherwise, it should go to wikinews. Smmurphy(Talk) 21:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

That is ludicrous, and you will need to identify the Wiki guideline about including current events in articles about cities. Articles on Seattle, Moscow and São Paulo all have current events included, because cities are living breathing things, and the nature of Wikipedia demands that the articles reflect that livingness and breathyness. - Freechild 23:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

This racist news 'editorial' does not belong in a encyclopedia. Although it's a deplorable act, it's not indicative of Omaha at large, but represents the radical actions of two men. Please remove this and post it elsewhere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.13.149.234 (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

The relevant proposal is at WP:NOTNEWS, which is based on WP:N. As for what belongs on Omaha's main article, Albert Rucker is not, Enola Gay is (Rucker is on Omaha Police Department). The proposal for notability of news says that it should be in the news for more than one week, and this even satisfies that, along with some of their other criteria. Also, the news event should have historic meaning, which this may. But I think this could spin off into its own article: Crime in Nebraska, Crime in Omaha, or even Hate crime in Nebraska. Currently, the best article of this sort I could find was Crime in Washington, D.C. and Crime in Detroit, Michigan. A type of page to avoid is Crime in Sydney. Do you think "Crime in Omaha" or "Crime in Nebraska" would be better? I'm leaning towards Omaha, as crime seems to have more of a civic coherence. Either way, we could base it on the DC article. I'll give it a start in my user space: User:Smmurphy/Crime in Omaha, Nebraska. If you are interested, go ahead and edit it there, or even bring it live (after you fix it up, of course). I'll work on it this weekend. Smmurphy(Talk) 04:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I would agree that there is value in a "Crime in Omaha" article, although catiously so: the city is so slanted against its low-income communities that it may simply end up being a page with links to South Omaha, North Omaha and East Omaha. That much said, if anything the Wiki guidelines you cite actually support the inclusion of the aforementioned event. And while there is validity to a "Crime in Omaha" article, it is also important to cite currently relevant events in the life of a city. Its important to remember that simply because you don't like an event, current or historical, does not mean it should not be included in a Wikipedia article; moreover, that may be what makes it important, particularly in the case of Omaha. I am in favor of leaving this section intact. - Freechild 04:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The point of spinning off into another article is that it prevents creep and adds to stability of higher profile articles. Also, the event doesn't fit in the first few paragraphs per WP:LEAD.
For recent events, it is hard to know what is "relevant". WP is not a crystal ball, nor is WP Omaha.com. What usually makes things relevant is other sources saying it is relevant. Do you think that this event will considered a defining event in Omaha history? Anyway, I'm not against its mention, but it currently has more space in the article than any other historic event. I think in order to give it its due, a spinoff article would help. Otherwise its mention will just be removed when it is no longer "currently relevant." Also, a spinoff would allow the racial tension section to be more informative and context giving. Smmurphy(Talk) 14:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I do not disagree with a spinoff article, nor limiting the event to a mention in the Omaha article. At this point, I am simply cautioning editors against the ghettoization of Omaha crime. - Freechild 13:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean ghettoization of Omaha crime? Smmurphy(Talk) 14:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It is common understanding that the city's crime extends far west of 72nd Street; yet, as I said earlier, the Omaha media sensationalizes crime in the eastern half of the city. This leads the city's population in general to be biased against its low-income communities. In turn, because of the nature of WP, any article about "Crime in Omaha" may simply end up being a page with links to South Omaha, North Omaha and East Omaha. That is ghettoizing Omaha's crime. A WP article called "Crime in Omaha" needs to cover the entire city. - Freechild 16:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
That's fine, and no one would argue that crime is nonexistent in western parts of Omaha; however, the would also have to point out that crime rates are highest in neighborhoods east of 72nd, and that the violent crimes that lend themselves to sensationalism (murders, rapes, assaults) do occur disproportionately in those areas. Freechild, I've been following your Omaha-related edits for the past few months and I'm still quite baffled at, what, exactly, you're trying to get across with your edits. For example, large portions of the North Omaha-related articles read more like tourism brochures or community empowerment pamphlets instead of encyclopedia articles. – Swid (talk | edits) 16:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
When the new article is written and the citations come forth about any area of the city I will gladly read them. Not quite sure how you got on the topic of my other contribs to WP, but Swid, if you have a problem with my aforementioned edits, edit them. Your response isn't surprising; if anything, it seems a little overdue that anyone react to what I have written, particularly regarding North Omaha (this, this, this, this, this, and finally, this). Why does anything written about North Omaha have to be negative? Sorry I don't play that game as well as Omaha's mainstream media (and politicians, and legislators, and everyone almost everyone else) does. But remember, it's WP, and if you don't like it, change it and cite it. - Freechild 02:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I guess, Freechild, the point is that it doesn't always feel like we are discussing what an article should look like, but rather how we can use WP to change how people see North Omaha (WP:POINT). I love the place I grew up as much as anybody, and I am very pleased that you've done all the work you have (please keep it up, BTW). However, an article like this isn't a place to advocate Omahans taking racism and poverty more seriously. I understand the sentiment, and I encourage you to write to the paper, call the news channels, and to volunteer. And its reasonable that your edits to WP will reflect your feelings. I think I've given my suggestions about how I think we can cover this incident on WP. Do any of them make sense and seem reasonable to you? Thanks. Smmurphy(Talk) 20:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for summing up quite eloquently what I was trying to convey in my earlier comment. – Swid (talk | edits) 22:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The issue is not about Omahans taking race or poverty more seriously, and while that is important, it is unfortunate that you have equated my edits to that. There is more than one perspective in history - and WP does have room for multiple narratives. The fact of the matter is that I introduced a section on "racial tension" that is factually accurate and relevant to the WP article on Omaha. Just because the history of racism and "domestic terrorism" in Omaha is inconvenient and not particularly illustrious or even acceptable to Omaha's white middle and upper class communities does not mean that the narratives of people of color, low-income, or working class people do not belong in WP. Let's not reduce WP to the sum of small parts, but rather the whole body of knowledge out here, beyond Omaha, even when its about Omaha, and even when its an inconvenient truth. - Freechild 03:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and just for clarity, Smmurphy, you introduced the subject here as an "Incedent [sic] in North Omaha". For clarity, nobody in North Omaha regards that part of Omaha as being in "North Omaha". Folks who live in that section of Omaha and in North Omaha regard that community as "East Omaha". For all intents and purposes this conversation should have been labelled "Incident in East Omaha". - Freechild 03:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Discussion of east v. north should be held elsewhere, how about talk:East Omaha, Nebraska. Smmurphy(Talk) 05:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I just rewrote the racial tension section, its pretty long now, but I think it flows better. I tried to unify all of the events as being about the relationship between black and white Omahans. I also added stuff about shootings vis-a-vis black citizens and white police officers. This allows us to discuss the general distrust between white and black/west and north-east Omaha. In this larger context, and with mention of Goshime's actions since the incident, I believe that the firebombing event fits into the article. It would be nice if the section were cut down a bit, but I didn't want to cut anything myself right now. On the other hand, we havn't mentioned South Omaha at all. I'm thinking of tension between Polish, Irish, Ukrainian, and other communities in the past (other than the Greektown incident), although there has been some more recent tension between white and Hispanic more recently. I also cut a few words from what was said about the firebombing, including the word terrorism. For one thing, they seemed a bit superfluous, and the shorter paragraph is cleaner and more NPOV (I think). Also, I mentioned above what I thought about using the word terrorism, so its inclusion might have been an oversight anyway. If this change, or the section rewrite, is in any way problematic, feel free to make changes there, or talk about them here. Thanks and regards, Smmurphy(Talk) 07:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

PS can we remove mention of the firebombing from the lead, per [[WP:LEAD}} Small details that appear in the full article should be avoided in favor of a very brief overview of the article. Also, sorry about not citing any of this edit. Its all cited elsewhere, thanks to Freechild's hard work, so if the rewrite is acceptable, I'll go in and cite what needs its citations soon. Thanks again. Smmurphy(Talk) 07:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I want to note, I've adding this stuff in good faith, not just to make a point. But, I feel that if we are going to talk about racial tension in Omaha, the story is very long and there are many events and issues to discuss. I'm not sure that we aren't approaching the point where much of the section will have to be moved over to History of Omaha or another sub-article. I'm worried that if we do this, we'll end up back where we started, unable to decide how much of a mention the recent firebombing deserves in the article. (I'm still wondering if we have a consensus that it doesn't belong in the lead, btw). Freechild (and Swid and anyone else), how are you feeling about the new additions, and do you share my concerns? Smmurphy(Talk) 03:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm okay with removing it per WP:Lead. Regading the rest of the content, particularly your next statements about busing, I created Civil Rights Movement in Omaha, Nebraska, and invite you to add as relevant. - Freechild 06:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

What "incident" is this discusson referring to? Equinox137 04:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC) The last paragraph described here. - Freechild 14:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Busing

This sentence was removed as WP:POV

This distrust is manifest in the reactions of the groups to different public school integration and busing plans, which led to African American State Senator Ernie Chambers' proposing to separate the Omaha Public School district into what he called white, black, and brown sections.

Busing and integration in Omaha has played a major role in race relations in the city. I'm not sure how it is POV. Let us review:

Forced busing began in Omaha in 1976 to achieve racial integration. It ended in 1999. (1954-1979. Omaha World Herald (Nebraska) June 13, 2004)
Some people lauded busing as improving race relations. For instance, Concerned and Caring Educators, a 100-member group of black administrators and supervisors advocated against the cessation of forced busing, saying "Desegregation has caused the district to improve curriculum development and textbook selection, which has led to decreased use of stereotypical, bias-laden materials." "Desegregation has provided majority and minority students with advanced academic opportunities that were not present before desegregation." "Desegregation has improved race relations and minimized racial tensions." (Ngyren, Judith. Black Group: Ending Busing A Step Back Omaha World Herald. March 14, 1996)
On the other hand, some of those moving outside of the city are distrustful and unhappy with the situation in urban Omaha.

"One resident of Rose Garden Estates near 172nd and Pacific Streets said privately, for instance, that he finds the prospect of being incorporated into the city "increasingly scary." "I left Benson because I didn't like the changes," he said. "Too much crime, too much racial tension, too much school busing. I went to the suburbs to get away from that, and now I'm being forced back in." The man, an insurance company employee, denied that his problems were based on race, but he asked that this part of the interview be anonymous (Freed, Kenneth. The Lure of the Suburbs Do City Problems Grow With Growth? Omaha World Herald (August 7, 1996)). This article has other examples of similar sentiments.

Ernie Chambers' feelings about busing and integration and how they relate to his proposal are easily available, as well (Saunders, Michaela. Chambers up close A Q&A with the senator, whose OPS views are rooted in his youth. Omaha World Herald (April 30, 2006)).

My feeling is that instead of removing mention of busing as it relates to racial tension in Omaha, we could create a subsection (or sub-subsection) that specifically sets out to address the busing issue in Omaha. Smmurphy(Talk) 03:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, great. How's this? Smmurphy(Talk) 18:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Right now I'm not sure how (if?) to put this into the Civil Rights Movement in Omaha, Nebraska. I'll think about it more later, but if you have any ideas, go ahead. Smmurphy(Talk) 18:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

In A Street of Dreams they talk about the three pillars of Omaha's civil rights movement as being equal opportunities in the workplace, in housing and in schooling. Busing was forced on the Omaha district in 1971 by the Supreme Court as a measure to ensure the third pillar. Chambers' contention seems to be that it was a failure, but all the same - it was viewed as a success when the concession was first won. - Freechild 18:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like a nice segue into a busing section for that article. Smmurphy(Talk) 05:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I added 1972-present in the civil rights article, but I'm not sure how to summarize the busing section in Omaha, or whether to simply leave it. Thoughts? - Freechild 03:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess my first instinct is to say that the busing section in the Civil Rights Movement article should be longer, providing more context (what happened in the early 70s and before), and more texture (what happened during the program), as well as talking about why it was halted. Then what is in the Omaha article now will be a summary of that. I'm not sure, though. Smmurphy(Talk) 04:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll use that to guide my digging for a little while and I'll work on it for a few days. Thanks for the guidance on that. - Freechild 04:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Templates

I created a couple templates, hopefully they are useful and helpful. Feel free to put them into all the articles they belong in. They are based on the templates at Chicago. Please fix them up as you see fit, and for the Omaha template, I left some redlinks and didn't include a link to the city council article. Both of these are mostly due to laziness, I'm not sure how many of the redlinks will be filled in. Any suggestions probably go there, but please be bold. Smmurphy(Talk) 05:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I also created a template and a sub-category for North Omaha. - Freechild 19:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on making them more "standardized"; apologies if the look a little odd in the interim. Personally, I like the look of templates along the lines of, say, this, but sadly, that level of elegance requires subst:-ing the template code first and then fine-tuning the look by hand. Hopefully, I'll get to that soon. – Swid (talk | edits) 20:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Its no secret that I nabbed these from Chicago. But you are right, the England one looks good. Let me know if you want any help cleaning them up, but I'm sure you've got a handle on it. Smmurphy(Talk) 20:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I yanked that England template - Template:North Omaha - Freechild 21:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
they look great. Smmurphy(Talk) 21:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

New Omaha pages

Heads-up that I've parsed content from the Omaha page for History of Omaha, Nebraska and Neighborhoods of Omaha, Nebraska. - Freechild 04:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Add to that List of people from Omaha, Nebraska and Economy of Omaha, Nebraska. - Freechild 01:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Culture in Omaha, Nebraska

I want to start the Culture in Omaha page using the content that is on the Omaha article, and write-up the following, mostly focusing on the history of these groups. It would be great if anyone else jumped in...

- Freechild 14:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

People needed: Augustus Kountze, Herman Kountze, John A. Creighton, and several other "founding fathers." I'm finding several are already listed on WP and they simply need to be collected. For more info see List of people from Omaha, Nebraska. - Freechild 05:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
If you're going to have "Slovaks in Omaha, Nebraska", then you should have "Czechs in Omaha, Nebraska", not "Czechoslovakians". Czechs and Slovaks are normally considered two different peoples; Czechoslovakia was merely a political union. —Bkell (talk) 05:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Feel free to make the change yourself - its a community list. - Freechild 06:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
If anyone is interested, an article could be written for Restaurants in Omaha, Nebraska. There are several articles already up, including Mister C's, Gorat's and Dundee Dell. The whole thing could go up under Economy in Omaha or Culture in Omaha, and should include mentions of the Caniglia family and rueben sandwiches... - Freechild 05:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Timeline of Racial Tension in Omaha, Nebraska is a definite add to the Culture in Omaha, Nebraska article. - Freechild 19:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

To-Do's

In case anyone is interested, here is a bevy of interesting Omaha, Nebraska topics up for article-writing. Let's all chip and add to it, too!

  • Stone Cold Picnic
  • Wesley House (Omaha)
  • Danish Vennelyst Park (Omaha)
  • Boyd Park (Omaha)
  • Fontenelle Park (Omaha)
  • Adams Park (Omaha)
  • Benson Park (Omaha)
  • Bemis Park (Omaha)
  • Memorial Park (Omaha)
  • St. Louis Missouri Fur Trading Company
  • Citizens Civic Committee for Civil Liberties
  • Frank Brown (Omaha)
  • Mormon Bridge Tollhouse
  • St. Joseph's Catholic Church (Omaha)
  • St. Patrick's Catholic Church (Omaha)

Mmm. Anything else? - Freechild 04:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Separation of North Omaha

I am wondering about the rationale behind creating separate Omaha and North Omaha pages. I understand North Omaha is a collection of neighborhoods, and thus might warrant its own history page, but I am concerned about such divisions as: Neighborhoods of Omaha, Nebraska vs. Neighborhoods of North Omaha, Nebraska, List of Landmarks in Omaha, Nebraska vs. Culture in North Omaha, Nebraska, and List of people from Omaha, Nebraska vs. List of people from North Omaha, Nebraska. It creates a list of problems for me: Does something relating to North Omaha then not fit into the Omaha article? Why potentially duplicate information and double the work load of growing and maintaining articles? Why no South Omaha pages? or Morton Meadows Neighborhood in Omaha, Nebraska pages? To me, North Omaha is a part of Omaha, and has no reason to split away except in discussions of history or when specifically discussing different neighborhoods. I'd like to hear others' viewpoints on this. Regards, BierHerr 22:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

If you check the attributions on any of the articles related to North Omaha, you will find that that area of the city has a distinct sociological relevance that is different from the rest of the city, except South Omaha. North Omaha, as an isolated geographic phenomenon within Omaha, has been studied and analyzed by historians, demographers, sociologists and a host of other social scientists, largely because of its anomalous racial and cultural significance in Nebraska. South Omaha does have such a legacy, which I have only just begun digging into. However, the project of Wikifying South Omaha needs editors who are more committed to that than me - because frankly, I am largely disinterested in that community. However, I would challenge anyone to work on it, primarily because there is a lot there that needs to be accounted for here. In other words, if you think its missing, then write it. Good luck. - Freechild 05:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
And about Morton Meadows, in a quick scan via Google and a few research portals, I cannot find anything notable about the community. The thing about the neighborhoods in North Omaha is that they have been designated as significant within the city, especially in terms of their history, architecture, and culture. Morton Meadows, eh, not so much. South Omaha? Now that's a different question! Go, go, go for it! - Freechild 05:09, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I can see where North O may warrant its own historical page, and maybe it's own cultural page (hopefully someone will step up and do the same for the rest of Omaha, so we have even treatment... unfortunately, I am not the person to do this...) However, would you say that List of people from North Omaha, Nebraska would be better served merged with List of people from Omaha, Nebraska? I know it's a small point in the grand scheme, but it seems to me that those people are an integral part of Omaha (and its history) as a whole. Sub-dividing them into a duplicate-but-smaller listing seems counter-productive. Just my opinion--I wonder what others may think about this. (Let me also say that, on the whole, I am very pleased that you are putting so much time into improving the entire Omaha wikiuniverse, Freechild, so I hope I never come off as negative.) -BierHerr 16:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

New categories

FYI, here are some new categories:

- Freechild 21:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I just added the Category:Shopping malls in Nebraska to categorize the fairly new Oakview Mall article. This category was deleted once... so we'll see if it sticks around. Anyone particularly interested in making a Crossroads or Westroads article? I'd like to do one on the history of Center Mall soon when I find the time... BierHerr 21:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Expand the template or add to this page somehow?

I just created the following list at List of Nebraska-related topics. Should it be brought into the template, brought into the article or left where it is without putting it anywhere else? - Freechild 08:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it would make a rather cluttered template. However, as a list, it could possibly do a little better. WP:LIST has some guidelines, but without a good lead and some context, this type of thing has a tough time passing afd, as nested categories can do the same work. Smmurphy(Talk) 21:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Done, but I'm not sure about the format. List of articles related to Omaha, Nebraska. - Freechild 22:22, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Formatting Omaha's sections

I have recently created Culture in Omaha, and upon surveying Omaha, I am not sure about how to clean up that section on the page. Any suggestions, or does anyone want to take a stab at it? – Freechild (Hey ya. | edits) 21:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to take a stab at it in the near future if I get some free time... But if anyone beats me to it, I won't be mad! BierHerr 17:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Similarly, the "Racial Tension" section can be parsed down given the article's completeness. Any assistance is appreciated. - – Freechild (Hey ya. | edits) 07:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I boldly took a swipe at the Culture section... hopefully this improves the continuity a bit. Somebody please, please, please go through there and clean up after me... I've stared at this section too long. Also, let's keep an eye on the section... random anonymous editors like to add rambling near-references to Omaha in any pop-situation they come across... let's move those to the "more info" articles or delete them altogether if they are too ridiculous. This section shouldn't have to grow much larger on the main Omaha page... heck, if anyone wants to prune it even more... Regards, BierHerr 02:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


Next I boldly pruned the Racial Tension section, actually moving that as a sub-section and making Civil Rights Movement the parent section. I checked to make sure everything I cut was accounted for in another linked article, but someone might want to double check to be sure we didn't lose anything. Now, maybe the Culture section needs another round of pruning... Regards, BierHerr 01:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

AfD notice

FYI, Culture in Omaha, Nebraska is up for deletion. The debate has opened up at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Culture in Omaha, Nebraska. - – Freechild (Hey ya. | edits) 16:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

  • The debate was speedily closed and speedily kept after I speedily added dozens of references. – Freechild (BoomCha) 14:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
...and congrats on your speedy barnstar! BierHerr 17:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Founding figures

Recently I completed an article on Tom Dennison. It strikes me, seeing a complete absence of information about Omaha's founders, that there needs to be more out there. Let me know if you have any particular folks you'd like to see an article on. I also think there needs to be a category to the effect of Category:Founding figures of Omaha. My list follows. – Freechild (BoomCha) 06:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Should we make a template for Omaha's founding figures? What qualifies someone as a founding figure? I guess that goes back to reliable citations? Template or category - any thoughts? Omaha Claim Club – Freechild (BoomCha) 06:35, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Not really a "founding father" but I created a Mary Lucretia Creighton article. Should do John A. next... - BierHerr 01:25, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Awesome! I am thinking about doing up an Omaha Founding Figures template... Here is a great source for info. – Freechild (BoomCha) 02:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

See Founding figures of Omaha, Nebraska the outcome of this conversation! – Freechild (BoomCha) 15:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I like... There are some great names on here, and I'm excited to make some new articles. A. J. Poppleton looks like an interesting character. Also, I was able to do a Metz Brewery article with some info I found. One of the refs I used is a good source for period info on these people. Regards, BierHerr 17:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

NY Times article link

Posting this here for future use... good NY Times article that can be used as a reference to possible improve some Omaha-related articles: Omaha's Culture Club. Regards, BierHerr 01:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Good call - I stuck it in the external links section when it came out! – Freechild (BoomCha) 03:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Oops, missed that. Just when I think I have something new... you're two steps ahead of me. :) - BierHerr 03:29, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Omaha?

Ya know, if we formed an Omaha-focused WikiProject, we could pass stuff like this around all the time, and maybe even keep just a page of good resources. – Freechild (BoomCha) 15:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Do we want to create a whole new Omaha Wikiproject, or just make an Omaha-focused section of Wikiproject Nebraska? I'm not sure which one is more "correct", but it looks like Wikiproject Nebraska is suffering from low participation. I'd like to give that one a boost, while still being able to come together around Omaha specifically. I don't think we'd get to much protest if we installed a special Omaha section under WP:NEB. (To All:) What are your thoughts? - BierHerr 16:08, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Order of the article

I changed the order of the sections in the article. Here's a comparison:

Old

  • 1. History
  • 2. Geography
  • 2.1 Metropolitan area
  • 2.2 Neighborhoods and suburbs
  • 2.3 Landmarks
  • 2.4 Climate
  • 3 Demographics
  • 4 Economy
  • 5 Education
  • 6 Culture
  • 6.1 Sports
  • 6.2 Music
  • 6.3 People
  • 6.4 Film
  • 6.5 Media
  • 7 Civil rights movement in Omaha
  • 7.1 Racial and ethnic tension
  • 8 Infrastructure
  • 8.1 Tallest buildings
  • 8.2 Health and medicine
  • 8.3 Transportation
  • 8.3.1 Airports
  • 8.3.2 Automobiles
  • 8.3.3 Railroads
  • 8.3.4 Missouri River bridges
  • 9 Sister cities

New

  • 1 History
  • 2 Cityscape
  • 2.1 Metropolitan area
  • 2.2 Neighborhoods and suburbs
  • 2.3 Landmarks
  • 3 Culture
  • 3.1 Sports
  • 3.2 Music
  • 3.3 People
  • 3.4 Film
  • 3.5 Media
  • 3.6 Civil rights movement in Omaha
  • 4 Economy
  • 5 Education
  • 6 Geography
  • 6.1 Climate
  • 7 Demographics
  • 7.1 Racial and ethnic tension
  • 8 Infrastructure
  • 8.1 Tallest buildings
  • 8.2 Health and medicine
  • 8.3 Transportation
  • 8.3.1 Airports
  • 8.3.2 Automobiles
  • 8.3.3 Railroads
  • 8.3.4 Missouri River bridges
  • 9 Sister cities

Thoughts? Comparing the two, I guess I believe that the sociological aspects of a city are interently more interesting than the statistical information. Combined with WP:Bold, and here ya go. – Freechild (BoomCha) 17:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Freechild, your enthusiasm for all things Omaha never ceases to amaze me. The only thing you have left to do is move here.  ;-) Anyway, the reorg looks good. A couple of random thoughts:
  • The OPS information needs to be updated, as the 2006 three-district plan was replaced by a new solution—one that lumps all districts in Douglas and Sarpy Counties into a "learning community" where the pre-controversy boundaries are retained, encourages diversity (using economic criteria) and has a shared tax base. More info (including link to the final bill) is available here.
  • Many of the railroads redlinked in the Omaha Railroads template are redundant, as they are simply different names a particular railroad had during its existence for one reason or another (mergers/acquisitions, bankruptcy, wholly-owned subsidiaries, etc.).
  • I need to apply my SVG ninja skills to making a new Omaha metro graphic, as the current one's an old, ugly PNG. (For that matter, I *should* also make an Omaha city map that shows the city boundaries more clearly w/r/t surrounding municipalities and counties.) – Swid (talk | edits) 18:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Photo request

Can anyone take a quick picture of Omaha's Union Station? They're asking for it over at DYK. Thanks in advance if anyone does this. – Freechild (BoomCha) 22:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Image request

Is anybody able/willing to create an image that defines Omaha's community areas similar to how Chicago does? That would be tremendously appreciated. For guidance see Neighborhoods of Omaha, Nebraska. – Freechild (¡!¡!¡!¡) 23:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Omaha category

I've cleaned the Category:Omaha, Nebraska, nestling all the individual articles appropriately and creating a few new ones where needed. – Freechild (¡!¡!¡!¡) 18:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)