Talk:Olza River

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Dear Halibutt, what do you think was the official language under the rule of the Habsburg dynastie? Did I wrote "German language" or did I wrote "Germany"? When do you plan to learn reading, Halibutt ? --Irredenta 09:00, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If you think that the German name is still relevant - go on. But please be informed that the names of all German rivers will be added in Slavic. For no reason at all, but still. And your comment would be just as good without personal remarks. Halibutt 09:07, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)
All German rivers, like Oder, Neisse, Weichsel, Netze, Warthe and so on, still have a Polish name added. Do you want to threaten me with this? I want you to go on - not for no reason at all, but for the reason that the alternativ names are interesting and therefore worth mention in wikipedia. I promise to never delete an extra information, as I do not have to suppress informations in attempt to support historical falsification.
The German name of this river is relevant for historical purpose. --Irredenta 12:13, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
All German rivers... lol... Do they speak German? Or perhaps they were born to German parents? Or perhaps they simply adopted German culture some time ago... I must say I like your animism. Halibutt 10:29, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Why not Olsa River?

The Czechs call their 83km cs:Olše (řeka), the Poles their 16km pl:Olza (reka). Merriam-Webster's Geographical Dictionary of 1997 calls it Olsa River. Yet, English Wikipedia once again echoes a Polish naming. Olsa would be a good compromise between Czech an Polish spelling - if it were not opposed by some for being "compromised" for being the German spelling used there for centuries, too.-- Matthead  DisOuß   03:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Trolling again, Matt? Olza is not a Polish name it is Old Slavic name for this river. The river was called always Olza by local people - Poles and Czechs also. Olsa is a German derivate from Olza. Official Czech Olše was invented by Czech nationalist writers at the end of the 19th century. Olza was used also officially by Czechs as far, as till 1960s. There is now also a smaller academic debate in the Czech Republic regarding renaming the river from Olše back to its natural Olza. - Darwinek (talk) 11:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Olše was not invented by Czech nationalists. It was invented by Polish teachers from Galicia who came to teach on the newly established Polish high school in Teschen (established in 1895) and thought Olza is not Polish enough. (Other names suggested by these teachers were Olszawa (Olšava in old Czech maps), etc.) I really start to get annoyed by the nationalistic rubbish you keep on inserting here, Darwinek!--Xixaxu (talk) 22:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Olsa is Germanised version of Slavic Olza, it also reads as "Olza", which you should know. Besides, it is mentioned in the article. Olše was invented by Czech nationalist writers, because no other Czech equivalent existed. Polish nationalists also tried to make their own equivalent but they finally left it as Olza. Story that it was invented by Poles from Galicia is a common Czech misconception. You will not be able to find Olsze in any Polish document before the appearance of the Czech Olše. You will find Olsza and Olszawa but not Olsze. There is a whole section about the name in the article, it is referenced with great bilingual Czech-Polish book about the river. P.S. Keep up your personal attacks for yourself, please. - Darwinek (talk) 00:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Ah, another one "why not use German name for something outside Germany?" series of questions? Leave the poor dead horsie alone... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 14:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
This discussion over the old naming and renaming is very interesting - can you find any sources for this and include it in the text? It'd also be a decent case for using Olza over Olše, although that's not what's under discussion here. Knepflerle (talk) 12:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

This is not how the naming of Wikipedia pages works I'm afraid. We don't pick titles as "compromises", we pick the one in most common use in English. You have found one book that uses Olsa when talking about a "former city, * of Teschen duchy" and the division of 1920 - does that determine predominant usage in English, or modern usage in English? No. A quick look at Encarta and Britannica shows they use Olza, also not determinative.

Perhaps we should use the Luxembourgish Musel as a compromise between the French Moselle and German Mosel? Or perhaps the Latin Mosella, as a language of a previous ruler of the territory? As used in English in two English language encyclopedias (1993 1970), or is that just anachronistic? Knepflerle (talk) 12:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Completely agree. Olza is the easiest possible one to determine, because a.) majority of local population use this from, b.) vast majority of English-language sources also. Just check out the Google Books for example and search for "Olza River" and "Olsa River", number of results as well as the years of publications speak for themselves. No dilemma here. Also there is a separate section explaining the name in the article. - Darwinek (talk) 12:18, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
This is a pretty case of terrible vandalism over whole topic, region and across the articles covering Eastern Europe articles, there is a general rule set by ArbCom which I believe should be applied to Matthead, see this Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Digwuren#General_restriction for details. His continuous disruptive behavior, edit warring and extreme POV pushing in the articles topics about Eastern Europe is frustrating. You, Matthed, tried to rename Sniezka to Schneekoppe, Euroregion Cieszyn Silesia to Euroregion Teschen Silesia, Cieszyn Silesia to Teschen Silesia, what next Matthead ? Czech Republic to Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, or Ostmark ? Or Poland to Prussland ? You also created highly disruptive template Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_December_27#Template:Sudetenland, for one purpose only - to disrupt, provoke, revoke the history and support your POV. This is pretty boring and blocks us from common editing and creating articles. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 15:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Getting hysterical does not help anything, Tulkolahten. Whatt Matthead suggests is to use on the English Wikipedia old German names instead of Czech or Polish names. In the particular case of Sněžka this would make perfect sense. German population used to live on both sides of the border (in Silesia as well as in Bohemia). That is not POV, that is not revoking the history, that is not justifying any German crimes against the Poles and/or the Czechs and/or the Jews and/or the Russians, etc., that is a fact.--Xixaxu (talk) 22:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
This don't make any sense. You will not rewrite the history and the fact German population was expelled from there. Matthead was officially warned for his disruptive behaviour by uninvolved admin and placed on a black list. Do as you wish, you can be also placed on a black list as him if you will decide to behave as such. Whole national debate here is completely redundant, because per most common English-language use and also local use the article should be named Olza. Period. - Darwinek (talk) 00:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)