Talk:Olshanski

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[edit] Moved

I've moved the page for the following reasons: [1], [2]. Reichenbach 10:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you provide evidence that the guys from the 14th or 15th centururies spoke Polish (or even understood it)? --Ghirla -трёп- 07:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
if you doing comparison at least do it properly: [3] [4]
Btw trying to find polish in 13-14c? M.K. 20:15, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Could you provide any 13th-century sources that mention the members of this family? Thanks. --Ghirla -трёп- 06:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
It is followed by tradition of family rooting (from Algimatas), btw you could spot and Dukes of Alšėnai, which also referred to his family. 13 source –hmmm hardly. Another note, is it correct that family in 14th century already Orthodoxy? As far as I remember this process was a bit in later times, may be I missed something. M.K. 08:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Guys, how about using a Ruthenian name Olshanski? After all, this was a Ruthenian family of GDL, which itself was greatly Ruthenized? These noblemen are called as such in literature as well, see eg. [5], [6]. --Irpen 22:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Stop calling GDL ruthenized, that is bizarre. The only so-called ruthenisation is the use of Ruthenian as a chancery language and a majority of Ruthenian culture people in the Eastern GDL. However it is more reasonable to call them Olshanski than Hoszanski in Polish, which is also quite misleading. Iulius 07:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

So called ruthenisation ? Iulius, please check the sources. Start from, eg. as much respected one as Britannica:

"Within the [Lithuanian] grand duchy, the Ruthenian lands initially retained considerable autonomy. The pagan Lithuanians themselves were increasingly converting to Orthodoxy and assimilating into Ruthenian culture. The grand duchy's administrative practices and legal system drew heavily on Slavic customs, and Ruthenian became the official state language."[7]

Anyway, that's a side issue. --Irpen 08:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

noooooooo!!!! not again official state language :( M.K. 08:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
sorry, but this Britannica's quote is an aged rubbish and by no means I can't say its respected source anymore. Almost no common Lithuanian ever became an Orthodox, only the dukes that ruled ruthenian lands and no official state language, as it has been said, - only chancery language beside Latin. Iulius 13:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I can name six diffrent languages used in chancery. If we stay on topic some details should be specified, particulary family separation and faith. M.K. 17:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
The Encyclopaedia Britannica is the oldest such project in the English-speaking world. It is annually updated by leading experts from Oxford, Cambridge, and other respected scholarly institutions. Your offhand dismissal of this source may be regarded as trolling. --Ghirla -трёп- 13:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
That is ridiculous. Can you give any fact that any ethnic Lithuanian peasant has ever willingly taken up Orthodox religion? I cannot immagine that. And the Belarussian assimilation of Lithuanians in Vilnius region is a comparatively recent effect, almost irrelated to Ruthenian language and culture in GDL at all. I reitterate: I do not have noble people (dukes, magnates, etc.) in mind. Iulius 14:51, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Peasants have unlikely converted. Peasants were much less affected by any kinds of assimilations. The later Polonization in Ukraine was also mainly of the upper class, who also switched their language and religion. Let's just stick to the topic. --Irpen 17:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Besides, neither Ivan, Semen or Paweł (the three best known members of that family) were peasants, so this argument is hardly relevant here. //Halibutt 22:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

To the contrary. Since Olshanski were not peasants, they were Ruthenized. That's why their names is splelled in the slacivized form. --Irpen 23:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
That's precisely what I meant when I agreed with you, Irpen. Nice to see you feel the need to correct me when we both share the same view... //Halibutt 19:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)