Talk:Oleg Kashin

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This article was nominated for deletion on July 28 2007. The result of the discussion was strong keep.

[edit] Quotes from Kashin

Here I provide quotes (Russian) from writings by Kashin used in the segment of text that I inserted:Biophys 12:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

About Anna Politkovskaya: Ньюсмейкер, а не журналист, причем и ньюсмейкер особого рода, блаженная, стоящая в одном ряду с Валерией Новодворской и Виктором Анпиловым. [1]

About Andrei Babitsky: «Для пользы дела можно врать». Эту идеологию в свое время – уже много лет назад – сам того явно не желая, сформулировал журналист Бабицкий, объяснявший, зачем чеченские боевики отрезают перед видеокамерами русским пленным головы. «Просто таким образом они пытаются сделать войну более выпуклой, зримой, яркой», – говорил Бабицкий. [2]

About Andrey Sychev: Андрей Сычев не был ни привязан к кровати, ни изнасилован - гангрена возникла в результате, вероятнее всего, давнего заболевания вен. Единственным доказанным эпизодом после трех недель работы бригады из 41 следователя Главной военной прокуратуры (она давно воюет с Министерством обороны и заинтересована в как можно большем компромате на армию) является то, что Сычев некоторое время сидел на корточках перед арестованным ныне младшим сержантом Сивяковым, которого и «дедом»-то нельзя назвать – он отслужил ровно год и только-только стал по армейской классификации «черпаком».

Все остальное придумала председатель челябинского Комитета солдатских матерей Людмила Зинченко, которая, раздав с десяток интервью либеральным СМИ, теперь трусливо скрывается от следователей. Ложь раскрыта. [3] Biophys 00:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Translation of the quotes provided by Biophys:

About Anna Politkovskaya:

"Newsmaker, rather than a journalist, moreover, newsmaker of a strange kind, God's fool, standing in one row with Valeriya Novodvorskaya and Viktor Anpilov."

About Andrei Babitsky:

«One can lie for the profit of the deal.»

This ideology, in his time, many years ago, was unwillingly stated by journalist Andrei Babitsky, who explained, why Chechen fighters cut heads of Russian POWs in front of cameras: "just in that way they are trying to make the war more expressive, visible, bright" he said.

About Andrey Sychev:

Andrey Sychev wasn't neither roped to the bed, nor raped, -- most probably, gangrene arose from the old disease of veins. The only proven episode after three weeks of work by brigade of 41 investigators of the the office of Russia's Chief Military Prosecutor (it fights against Russian Ministry of Defense for long and is interested of as much "compromat" against the Army as possible) is that Sychev squatted for a while in front of now imprisoned junior sergeant Sivyakov, who even can't be called "ded" -- he had finished only a year of serving, and was only "cherpak" according to Army classification.

All the other stuff was thought up by the chairman of Chelyabinsk Committee of Soldiers Mothers Lydmila Zinchenko, who, after giving a dozen of interviews to liberal media now cowardly conceals from investigators. The lie is unveiled.

ellol 14:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

---

In the program "Liberty Live" at the Radio Freedom, December 24, 1999, Andrey Babitskiy said [4]:

"Надо сказать, что чеченцы перерезают горло солдатам не потому, что они садисты и испытывают склонность к какому-то особо жестокому отношению к солдатам, но просто таким образом они пытаются сделать войну более выпуклой, зримой, яркой, достучаться до общественного мнения, объяснить, что действительно идет война, война страшная, жестокая."

"It must be said, that Chechens cut soldiers' throats not because they are sadists and are tempt to any kind of special severe treatment of soldiers, but just in that way they are trying to make the war more expressive, visible, bright, to knock to the public opinion, to explain that the war really is on, the war frightening, severe."

Now, how did this statement appear in Oleg Kashin's article [5] "Brightness and expression of the virtual GULAG". Kashin viewed story of creation of the site http://gulag.ipvnews.org which was soon followed by critical acticle of blogger Alexander Dyukov, who noted that at least some of the photos at the site are fake, e.g. one of examples was a photo of Nazi capm, shown as if it was photo from a Soviet camp. Then Kashin noted three circumstances -- 1) The site was created by the American NGO "IPV News", 2) The site actively advertises Russian liberal sites, such as the site of Garry Kasparov, 3) Much of the stuff referes to our days rather than to the history of GULAG -- and said these circumstances are not interesting. What surprised him more was reaction of the liberal public on the site gulag.ipvnews and Dyukov's critical article. One of two comments selected by Kashin: "For me it's unimportant who piled bodies on that photo. As it didn't matter for my grandfather, who wasn't finished by Nazis, and was cut by NKVD people in the camp. Is that important? What, didn't these and those do the same thing?". From these comments Kashin drew conclusions about modern "fighters against the regime", i.e., that besides adequite considerations they have strange conclusions, ultimate sense of which is "one can lie for the profit of the deal." At this point Kashin recalled Babitsky, who, according to Kashin, had unwillingly stated this ideology, explaining why Chechen fighters cut throats of Russian soldiers: "just in that way they are trying to make the war more expressive, visible, bright". He concluded that Russian liberal public has its own war -- "virtual and unreal", but the war, which in their opinion can be drawn more "expressive, visible, bright" by any available means. "Heroes of Babitsky cut people's heads, modern fighters with the regime lie. The scale different, logics the same."

ellol 12:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course, Biophys's contribution that Kashin "claims that journalist Andrei Babitsky publicly supported beheadings of Russian prisoners of war by Chechen terrorists" either reflects lack of info on his side, either his anti-Russian sentiment. I prefer to think that buddy Biophys isn't properly informed. ellol 12:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I have provided Russian text that justifies my summary.Biophys 12:37, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, what's exactly your point? That Kashin is not a liberal journalist? Everybody knows, that Kashin is an independent patriotic journalist. ellol 14:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I take back my words about anti-Russian sentiment. Sorry, it was a hot discussion. ellol 17:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability concerns

Just as mikka, I think this person is not notable. A deletion discussion about Oleg Kashin has been recently closed, after just a few hours and few people telling their opinions. No justification of this person notability has been provided by any of this discussion participants. According to WP policies, [6] "A person is generally notable if they meet any of the following standards...", and so on.

Basically, we need an independent third-party publication claiming that a person is notable. So far, we have none about Kashin. We have: (a) his own publications, (b) his biography (written probably by him) at one of places of his employment (a kind of standard CV) - reference 1; and (c) two his interviews in non-notable sources (two other references). In these interviews, he tells about himself whatever he wants.Biophys 12:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Google search on Kashin returns 64,000 hits. Otherwise, similar search on Yevgeniya Albats returns 50,000 hits. But notability of Yevgeniya Albats doesn't question our biological physicist, it seems. ellol 12:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC) You initiated process of AfD on this article. The result was implicit strong keep. Just guys noted that someone should copyedit and expand the article. ellol 12:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Please read WP:Notability. It has nothing to do with Google searches. Present version of this article includes exactly ZERO third-party sources claiming Kashin to be notable. The user who closed AfD dicsussion could only appeal to "ignore all rules". Biophys 21:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

In fact, WP:Wikipedia:Notability_%28people%29 and WP:Notability never even mentioned Goggle search.Biophys 21:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, according to the TV channel O2TV [7]:

За короткий срок Олег Кашин сумел стать ведущим молодежно-политическим журналистом страны. Народная мудрость тех времен гласила, что если о молодежном движении не написал Олег Кашин, то этого движения не существует. Кашина одинаково уважали и ценили национал-большевики и «Наши», молодые «Яблочники» и молодая «Родина» In the short period Oleg Kashin became leading youth-political journalist of the nation. The folk wisdom of that time stated that if Kashin did not write about a youth movement then the movement did not exist. Kashin was equally respected by National Bolsheviks and Nashi, young Yabloko and young Motherland.

Kashin was a main author of Expert and Kommersant - two of the most respected newspapers, published in Izvestia, NG, published a book [8] by a respected publishr Evropa, was a side in the TV polemic with Victor Shenderovich, etc. I think it is enough for the claim of notability Alex Bakharev 14:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

With regard to TV channel O2TV text, this looks like a standard CV that Kashin possibly wrote himself and provided in the place of his employment. At least, it is completely unclear who wrote this text: no name, no date, no self-explaining title. If it was a newspaper article published by someone else with name and telling that Kashin is great, that would qualify. If he published a book, one should include this book in the article. So far, I do not see any proofs of his notability in this article.Biophys 19:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)