Talk:Oldham

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[edit] Oldham Athletic F.C.

"The most notable and successful sports team in Oldham"... notable, maybe, but successful surely goes to numerous times Championship winners, Challenge Cup winners Oldham Roughyeds?

DShamen 15:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I think "successful" is probably a term to avoid, per WP:PEACOCK. Though the section could do with a bit of an overhall and some high quality citation. -- Jza84 · (talk) 16:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few things ...

  • I can't see the logic of including the founding of Yates Wine Lodge in the Invention and discovery section.
  • Why are all the mill names given in quotes, Like "Elks" mill? It makes it look as if that wasn't their real name. Was it called Elks Mill?

--Malleus Fatuarum 19:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure where else to put the Yates Wine Lodge claim, any suggestions?... perhaps the removal of the sub-heading would help? The name of the mill was Elk. The quotation marks could/should probably be removed! -- Jza84 · (talk) 20:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

What about putting it in the Economy section? Speaking of which, I found the caption to the rather impressive stained glass roof a bit confusing: "The Spindles", one of Oldham's shopping centres, houses one of Europe's largest stained glass roofs. Which, created by local artist Brian Clarke ...' Is "Which" the name of the artwork? Perhaps I'm just being dense, because I also still don't understand these mill names. Was the mill just called Elk, and so should be called something like Elk's mill, or was it called Elk Mill?

Yours confusedly, --Malleus Fatuarum 21:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, it's probably definately me! I've a banging headache tonight and got clarity of mind! - way too much wiki during the last fortnight for me I think!!.... Each mill in Oldham (and beyond as I understood) had a (nick)name, so examples are 'Cape', 'Devon', 'Royd', 'Anchor', 'Arrow' 'Dawn', 'Briar' and, of course 'Elk'. Why this system? I've no idea - but the names were always in white brick at the top of the mill's water-tower or chimney. The mill in question was just 'Elk'. I'm not sure if the quotation marks are needed - certainly Shaw and Crompton doesn't use them.
The rotunda stained glass windows, as far as verifiability goes, do not seem to have names. The use of "Which" is just my incredibly poor use of grammar!... oh, and I think your suggestion of the economy merge is a good one! -- Jza84 · (talk) 22:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
So probably Elk mill is the best way to talk about the mills. If you've got no objection I'll make that change. --Malleus Fatuarum 22:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Circumbound

"Oldham is circumbound by several smaller settlements ..."

The word "circumbound" has troubled me ever since I first saw it in the lead, not least because it doesn't appear in my edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary, and so I'm not at all sure what it means. Putting "circum" and "bound" together like that would tend to suggest to me that Oldham was in some way constrained in its growth by the surrounding settlements, in the way that Manchester is, although I've never seen anyone say that Manchester is circumbound by Salford, Trafford ...

I did a Google search for "circumbound", and it came up with 7 hits, 6 of them apparently deriving from this Oldham article. All of which leads me to believe that "circumbound" isn't a real word. Well, not yet, anyway. --Malleus Fatuarum 01:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC):)

Hmmmm, it seems you're right! I have it in one of these Oldham local history books, but it is one of the older ones, and thus probably an archaic term. Any suggestions for an alternative? Thanks for pointing this out, -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

What about something simple, like "surrounded by"? As William Safire apparently said, "Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do." :) --Malleus Fatuarum 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Y Done, -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-empting FAC objections

I predict that the Communal facilities subsection of Culture will get slated unless we can fix it PDQ.

  • "The Lyceum is a Grade II listed building opened in 1856 at a cost of £6,500 as a "mutual improvement" centre for the working men of Oldham. Superseding an earlier building which opened under the same terms in 1839, available to its members were a library, a newsroom and a series of lectures on geology, geography and education, microscope and chemistry, female education and botany."

Awkward passive voice, and how can a building be "superseded"? What were these "same terms"? And presumably it wasn't the opening that cost £6,500.

"Music had always existed at the Lyceum ...". Always? What does "music existing" mean"?

FA seems always to be a bit of a struggle, but no point in making it harder than it needs to be. --Malleus Fatuarum 03:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You raise totally valid points. Much of this part of the article is from a rather wordy book (A Centenary History of Oldham). I seems this section needs some better paraphrasing and copy-editting - "Music had always existed at the Lyceum" probably reading as "music has been studied and practiced at the Lyceum since its opening."? "Superseding" refering (I think - it's not totally clear in the book) that an earlier Lyceum existed with identical terms of use, but was knocked down to make way for a larger building. -- Jza84 · (talk) 15:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoken version added

I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link above. Hassocks5489 (talk) 01:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] V1 attack on Christmas eve 24 December 1944 - question of number of victims

There is missing the bombing of Oldham of 1944: Oldham was hit by a V1 on Abbey Hills Road, where a V1 landed on a row of cottages. The number of victims does not seem to be safe:

killing 27 people and seriously injuring 49, says a BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4122627.stm

but many other websites are telling about 37 killed, e.g. http://jp29.org/2ar.htm

Perhaps somebody can find out the truth?

--Michael Palomino (talk) 14:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Probably a good addition for the History of Oldham article. Best bet would be to give a range of numbers, so 27 to 37 fatalities. --Jza84 |  Talk  19:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)